Podcast with Sampriti Sridhar, Legal Counsel, Lake Shore India Management Pvt. Ltd.

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Hey guys, welcome to LexDiscuss Cafe, where we bring you inspiring conversations

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with industry leaders and trailblazers who are shaping the future of law.

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Joining us today is Sampriti Sridhar, a distinguished corporate lawyer currently working at Lake Shore

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India Management Pvt Ltd.

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So far, she has been doing remarkably well in her career.

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She has worked with top firms like AZB Partners and Blackrock.

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She also did LLM from the prestigious Columbia Law School.

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Stay tuned as we explore her experiences in science and the evolving landscape of corporate

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law in India.

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Hey Sampriti, welcome to LexDiscuss Podcast.

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Hi Avinash, thank you for having me.

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It's really a great opportunity to be here.

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We also feel the same way.

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So from Chennai to Mumbai and even New York City, you have had quite the geographical

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journey in your career.

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Would you share a memorable anecdote from your time working in these diverse legal landscapes?

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I think Avinash, mine has been a classic case of being at the right place at the right time

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and having the right kind of people guide me.

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In my very first job, which was in Chennai way back in 2011, a senior of mine who was

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also my first boss, he had kind of observed that my personality was very shy and reserved.

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And he advised me to like go abroad and get a masters because he felt that for me to survive

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in this cutthroat corporate world, that I needed to develop a little bit of a thick

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skin to come out of my shell, my comfort zone, to be confident, to express my point of view.

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And I was a bit reticent in that aspect.

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Well, I heard him out and I never really like went ahead and did my masters the minute he

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told me to.

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But I moved to another law firm called Amatshan and Mangaldas.

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And that's when I had my first exposure to lawyers from different parts of the country,

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from like the best law schools.

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And it was a very challenging and demanding environment.

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I worked there for two years and I somehow managed it.

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Then I went and did my masters in New York.

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Initially, going from Chennai to New York, it was so intimidating.

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But I think that experience made me stronger, very, very confident.

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I ended up taking a lot of classes, which required me to like give my point of view,

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to speak up.

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It really pushed me out of my comfort zone.

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And I think that all of this is what has made me what I am today.

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So I very often go back to what my first boss told me about how I needed to develop certain

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personality traits to be able to survive in this world.

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And I can't get by being the shy, reserved girl that I was at 21.

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And I'm so thankful for that advice because I keep thinking about it and I keep looking

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at my journey from how I was to how I am now.

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And that has always stuck with me.

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So let me ask an open-ended question.

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How much did you spend for the LLM?

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It is the LLM is not very cheap at all.

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And also because I did my LLM at New York and New York is the financial capital of the

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world.

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Very, very expensive.

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So the LLM back in 2015, which is when I went, was about 50,000 U.S. dollars, the tuition

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alone.

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I'm sure it's a lot more now, some time has passed.

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And apart from that, I would say it depends on how you choose to live there, the kind

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of place you decide to rent your apartment in.

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But I would say like maybe another 20,000 for just living expenses, which you can support.

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You can also get like part-time jobs, like, you know, in all of these law schools, you

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could become a research assistant with a professor, which will give you some kind of extra money.

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It's not much, but it's still extra.

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It won't fund your rent, but it's still some extra cash.

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So I did do an RA position as well when I was there.

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But in terms of actually funding the LLM, it was a mixed bag of like some help from

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my family, the bank, and some of my savings because I'd worked for three and a half years.

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Okay.

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So you are the lucky few whose parents can, you know, at least partially fund their education

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or foreign education to be able to pay for that.

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Right.

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So you have spent close to like, you know, 70 to 80,000 dollars in pursuing the LLM.

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What happened next?

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Did you want it to work there or you didn't want to work there, you wanted to come back?

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What was your plan?

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I was very clear in my mind.

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I eventually wanted to come back to India, never had plans of settling there.

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I think it was to do with wanting to be closer to family, closer to home.

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But I did want to work for a year or two.

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So usually after your LLM, you get like one year where the visa allows you to work without

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any sponsorship.

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So you could use that time.

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And I think my plan was always to just work for that one year.

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It is very, very hard to find a job, to be honest.

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Like I have stories of friends who sent out like 500 resumes and then you eventually get

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through.

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Similarly, even in my case, like I sent out multiple resumes and I think it took me like

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months before I landed that role at BlackRock for a year.

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But even my position was just for a year.

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And it really was a very good experience that I had.

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But I was very clear in my head that at the end of that, I wanted to come back home.

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So there are some listeners who want to pursue higher education for the sake of, you know,

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shifting the jurisdiction or finally setting in a foreign country.

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Do you think LLM is a good option for that?

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Yes.

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If you're thinking of actually moving base and settling in the US and restarting your

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career over there, like LLM is the first step that you could go.

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You do an LLM and then you write the bar exam over there, then you can apply for jobs.

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But the whole process of finding that job, I'm being very honest with you.

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It's not just in my experience, but I know a lot of people who have also been through

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that process.

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It takes a long time and it's not that easy.

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But I think if you don't give up and you keep persisting, it could happen.

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But it takes time, like three, four months, four, five months.

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But the only thing is there will be a period where you will probably not have a job and

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you need to fund yourself.

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You're living over there after your master's, after the bar exam.

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So you just don't have any source of income coming in, but you're just sitting there looking

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for jobs.

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So I think that's when people give up and decide to go back home.

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It does take a long time.

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But I think if anyone wants to shift base and start their career in a different country,

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especially in the US, the LLM is a great first step to getting there.

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So do you have any experience where you can compare the chances of getting a job vis-a-vis

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compared to any other professional degree, for instance, MBA or master's in sociology

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or something of that sort?

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I think when you get an MBA, you could very easily get a job in the US after that.

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Again, I may be wrong in this because this is not my profession, so I have very limited

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knowledge.

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I can just compare, like I was at Columbia and I did the master's in law from Columbia.

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And the chances of an LLM getting a job after that, even if you got great grades, was very

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less.

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Somewhere around 30%-40%?

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Yeah.

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Yeah.

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It's just like a handful of people versus an MBA, someone at a Columbia business school,

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you have like a 95 plus chance of getting a job.

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And this is just what I observed.

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So I think the main thing is because for lawyers, especially, they need to justify as to why

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they're hiring a foreign lawyer versus a local.

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And mostly the local, the Americans, the program that they do is called the Juris Doctor Program.

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So that's for three years.

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So when you do the Juris Doctor Program, especially from law schools like Harvard and Columbia,

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you will get a job.

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It's a done deal by your first year that you're going to get a job at a great law firm.

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But only thing is it's for three years.

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So either you have the option to do the LLM and wait it out and struggle for several months

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trying to look for jobs.

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And you know, it's a gamble.

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You may or may not get one versus if you do a Juris Doctor Program, which is three years

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and it's a lot more harder, there is more chances of getting a job.

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And it's a lot more expensive as well, right?

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Yeah, because it's three years.

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But I can tell you that if you do a Juris Doctor Program, especially from top law schools,

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by the first year, you will have a job unless you're like doing really badly.

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Right.

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That's what even I have observed.

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A lot of students come to me and say like, you know, we want to permanently shift to

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Canada or US.

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My advice is like, if that is your primary motivation, then LLM is not a good option.

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MBA, I would say, is a better option, is a lot safer option compared to LLM.

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But if you want to learn law, if you want to learn from some of the most prestigious

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universities, acquiring knowledge is your objective, then LLM might make sense.

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Yeah.

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And that is precisely the reason why I did an LLM myself.

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It was not to go and find a job over there and move.

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And in fact, when a lot of people come to me for advice and say that, you know, but

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I want to get a job there.

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So what do you recommend?

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I'm like, listen, it's a gamble.

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You may or you may not.

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It's going to take you a really long time.

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I do know people who have stuck it out for like five months and eventually landed a job.

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But it just, you never know what's going to happen.

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It's not like a sure shot as opposed to like getting a job after an MBA.

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Obviously, you can't make a specific statement, but you must have friends like who have immigrated

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from here and got a job there.

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So what is the general work-life comparison between working in a law firm here in India

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versus working in a law firm in the U.S.?

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Honestly, I worked at two national law firms in Bombay.

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One is AZB and Partners.

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And before my LLM, I'd worked at Amachand and Mangaldas, which is a national law firm,

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but I was based in Chennai.

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And these firms are so competitive and challenging.

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The hours are really long that it's not too much of a difference, to be honest, between

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how you work over here versus how you work in a law firm in New York.

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You're trained from like day one to deliver to the client in like tight timelines, which

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means pulling in the hours, spending long days and weekends in the office.

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So if you're looking at like working hours, honestly, like if you work in these law firms

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like the national law firms like AZB, Tri-Negal, Amachand, Khaitan, you won't see too much

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of a difference between the work culture over here versus abroad because you are pulling

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in the same kind of hours that people would probably do in New York.

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And you're trained to be able to deal with such demanding clients as well.

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And what about the kind of work you do, the kind of work that is assigned to you?

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I have heard the US, it's all about hyper-specialization, like I'm a trade marketer.

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You won't be a trade marketer, you will be specializing in opposition, right?

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Then you will also kind of specialize in certain type of clients.

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So if you compare this with India, we don't have that culture of hyper-specialization.

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So is my understanding correct or is it just a myth?

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To some extent, yeah, this is like very, very specialized.

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So when I was in my first two jobs in Chennai, the team was much smaller, so we were all

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expected to work on anything and everything from like capital markets to title diligence

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to an M&A deal.

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But when I was at AZB and Partners, my area of practice became a lot more specialized.

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I was only doing real estate M&A.

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It was very specific to real estate sector and M&A deals in that space.

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But again, like from what you said in the US, even in the specialization, there are

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subgroups to that, right?

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It was not that specific, but yeah, like when I was at AZB, to some extent, like I was mainly

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working on just real estate M&A deals because that was the team that I was part of.

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So my question was, general law firms in the US, you have to kind of get hyper-specialized

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down the line.

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My question was, is my understanding correct versus if you compare this with normal law

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firms, you are specializing, but you don't go into hyper-specialization with people who

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were working in law firm in the US?

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So if I understand your question correctly, I think you don't have to, like it does get

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very hyper-specialized in the US.

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But I think over here, it doesn't get to that extent.

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You know, we all have our practice areas.

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But again, like in my previous law firm, like I may have done real estate M&A, but if there

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is an opinion on something else that, you know, a client has asked us, we have worked on

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that as well. So I have done other kind of deals here and there.

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But majority of mine was specific to a particular sector.

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And I personally feel that it should never get that hyper-specialized that you're only

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able to opine on one particular area of law, right?

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Like as a lawyer, you should be able to have an idea of what's going on from a holistic

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point of view. Like you should have a general idea about what's going on.

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So I think my opinion is that it should never get that specific to like if in IP, you can't

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just be working on trademarks and opposition, like, you know, that is really specific.

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That tomorrow if a client asks you something to do with another area of intellectual property

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law, you may not end up knowing it because as your career progresses, then you start

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reading up on only that particular small area of law and you kind of have like blinders

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on about everything else.

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And I don't think you should ever forget about the other parts of law and you should generally

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have an idea of what's going on.

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Right. Well said there.

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So let's start with Blackrock.

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How was it working with Blackrock?

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It was a great experience.

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It was very different from my previous jobs.

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I was helping with mainly research and publications.

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So that way it was very different.

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But it was also very new to me because I was dealing with a lot of like US related laws.

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So it was very different.

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But generally the experience of like working in such a big organization for the year, like,

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you know, with amazingly intelligent lawyers was great.

233
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So what kind of work you were doing there?

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Like I said, like, you know, basically it was not to do with the kind of work I was

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doing in law firms.

236
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It was very academic.

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So Blackrock published a lot of papers on different areas of law and there was a lot

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of their views and their point of view on what should be the law, what should change.

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Right. I was helping them a lot in writing these articles and papers.

240
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So let me ask you a little controversial question.

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Yes.

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Where did you enjoy working more?

243
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AZB or Amarchan Mangaldas?

244
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AZB.

245
00:15:06,840 --> 00:15:09,360
Yeah, I think I enjoyed working at AZB more.

246
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I never thought I would say that.

247
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But the hours were long and it was very demanding.

248
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But I learned a lot in my four and a half years over there.

249
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And it's definitely like shaped me in a way that I never could imagine.

250
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In terms of the kind of work that I was exposed to as well and the deals that I was put on

251
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and worked with like great teams, AZB was the better experience for me.

252
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And also AZB has a lesser hierarchy.

253
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It's more like you could be at a junior to mid-eleven and you could walk into a senior

254
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partner's room and have a discussion, which I liked a lot more because Amarchand has a

255
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lot more hierarchy.

256
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Right.

257
00:15:52,080 --> 00:15:53,800
OK, that's nice.

258
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I wanted to explore the possibility, like, you know, you didn't graduate from a national

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law university.

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And then you ended up working for some of the most premier law firms in India.

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So I see a lot of students who come to me and say that, you know, sir, I'm a non-national

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student.

263
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I can't even dream about working for AZB or Amarchand.

264
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So what special thing did you do?

265
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Like I said, I told you I started this podcast by saying mine was a classic key piece of

266
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being at the right place at the right time.

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So I think I worked at this law firm called HSBN Partners, which is a regional law firm

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in Chennai.

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And I had a senior over there who was brilliant.

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And I used to work a lot with that senior.

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And that senior had moved to Amarchand when they opened offices in Chennai.

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And I was looking for jobs and he had recommended me because I had worked with him and he got

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a chance to see that I am pretty dedicated to my job.

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So that was my step into this national law firm world.

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And honestly, even I'd never dreamt of being able to get through because it was just so

276
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difficult for your CV to even get noticed when you're not from a national law school.

277
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So the Amarchand experience happened, but that still was not enough for me to move to Bombay.

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Even though I worked at a name called Amarchand, I was based in Chennai.

279
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So that was still not enough for me to move to Bombay.

280
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And I did try a lot and it just wasn't helping.

281
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And then I went for my masters and came back.

282
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And that's when my CV started getting noticed because then I had Amarchand and then I had

283
00:17:27,360 --> 00:17:31,560
Columbia and then I didn't even get through to recruiters to be able to get me interviews

284
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at law firms.

285
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And then the offers started coming in.

286
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So it was a long process, like from 2011 is when I graduated.

287
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And I think 2016 is when I was even able to get people in Bombay law firms to start noticing

288
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me.

289
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So this is all what I had to do.

290
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And then eventually, you know, I made the break into Bombay.

291
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So it was very, very competitive.

292
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I'm sure.

293
00:17:54,120 --> 00:17:58,000
Now let's explore a more lighthearted question.

294
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Do you think contracts are just really long love letters between businesses?

295
00:18:03,840 --> 00:18:05,760
If yes, then why?

296
00:18:05,760 --> 00:18:08,920
And if no, then also please explain why.

297
00:18:08,920 --> 00:18:13,800
Oh, they would make very unromantic love letters if that's the case.

298
00:18:13,800 --> 00:18:15,840
I think no.

299
00:18:15,840 --> 00:18:21,320
In my opinion, they're more like prenups that two people get into before they're going to

300
00:18:21,320 --> 00:18:26,560
get married because a contract basically lists out anything and everything that could

301
00:18:26,560 --> 00:18:30,520
go wrong and how you protect yourself when that happens.

302
00:18:30,520 --> 00:18:31,520
Right.

303
00:18:31,520 --> 00:18:33,420
So it's definitely not a love letter.

304
00:18:33,420 --> 00:18:37,520
It's more like a prenup, according to me, because if I ever got a love letter that looked

305
00:18:37,520 --> 00:18:41,840
like a contract, I would probably never date that person.

306
00:18:41,840 --> 00:18:45,000
So Sheldon is definitely out of question yet.

307
00:18:45,000 --> 00:18:46,000
Yeah, for sure.

308
00:18:47,000 --> 00:18:48,000
Yeah.

309
00:18:48,000 --> 00:18:52,720
So yeah, they're more like prenups because they list out every single ifs, then buts

310
00:18:52,720 --> 00:18:56,280
and what's going to happen if this happens and what's going to happen if that happens.

311
00:18:56,280 --> 00:18:59,640
So yeah, it's not a love letter, according to me.

312
00:18:59,640 --> 00:19:00,640
Okay.

313
00:19:00,640 --> 00:19:01,640
Well said.

314
00:19:01,640 --> 00:19:04,560
And you know, that brings me to a very interesting point.

315
00:19:04,560 --> 00:19:10,840
A lot of people in India have this confusion that prenups are legally binding in India

316
00:19:10,840 --> 00:19:11,840
as well.

317
00:19:11,840 --> 00:19:13,520
Do you have knowledge on this?

318
00:19:13,520 --> 00:19:20,320
Do you want to enlighten our listeners about the legal validity of prenups in India?

319
00:19:20,320 --> 00:19:25,780
So I haven't really worked too much on prenups, but I do know that they're not legally binding,

320
00:19:25,780 --> 00:19:30,880
but I don't have any experience in this area to opine on because you know.

321
00:19:30,880 --> 00:19:36,080
So the two senses like prenups are valid in the US, but here in India, they're not valid

322
00:19:36,080 --> 00:19:39,800
because in India, marriage is governed by personal law.

323
00:19:40,760 --> 00:19:42,440
So, you know, it's not, yeah.

324
00:19:42,440 --> 00:19:43,440
Right.

325
00:19:43,440 --> 00:19:48,200
And even if you get married under special marriage act, then also there is no mention

326
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of prenup.

327
00:19:49,200 --> 00:19:51,040
So again, you don't get validated.

328
00:19:51,040 --> 00:19:56,960
And by the way, in India, if your wife and you get divorced, like what happens in the

329
00:19:56,960 --> 00:20:00,320
US, she's not going to take half of your wealth, right?

330
00:20:00,320 --> 00:20:03,940
Because in the US, there is this concept of marital wealth.

331
00:20:03,940 --> 00:20:09,640
So after marriage, whatever both husband and wife has earned, that belongs to both of them.

332
00:20:10,480 --> 00:20:13,520
And when there is a separation, obviously that's going to be submitted there.

333
00:20:13,520 --> 00:20:16,280
But that's not the case here in India.

334
00:20:16,280 --> 00:20:17,280
Yeah.

335
00:20:17,280 --> 00:20:21,380
But the thing is, there are a lot of case laws would say that in terms of maintenance

336
00:20:21,380 --> 00:20:26,240
and everything, the wife should be able to have the same kind of lifestyle that she had

337
00:20:26,240 --> 00:20:27,280
during the marriage.

338
00:20:27,280 --> 00:20:30,760
So it's not like you're giving charity in terms of, oh, I'll just give you this much

339
00:20:30,760 --> 00:20:31,760
to maintain yourself.

340
00:20:31,760 --> 00:20:32,760
You should.

341
00:20:32,760 --> 00:20:37,080
There are a lot of case laws to that extent that she is entitled to the lifestyle that

342
00:20:37,080 --> 00:20:39,360
she led while she was married.

343
00:20:39,360 --> 00:20:42,760
Yeah, that's what even I read in the...

344
00:20:42,760 --> 00:20:46,600
But again, there are a lot of case laws and everything, but in India, the thing is to

345
00:20:46,600 --> 00:20:48,480
get everything enforced.

346
00:20:48,480 --> 00:20:49,480
It's not that easy.

347
00:20:49,480 --> 00:20:55,160
But yeah, even if she's entitled to same lifestyle, it doesn't mean that she's going to get half

348
00:20:55,160 --> 00:20:56,160
of your wealth.

349
00:20:56,160 --> 00:20:58,400
Over there, that's where the negotiations start.

350
00:20:58,400 --> 00:21:02,360
Here it is like, okay, she wants to have the same lifestyle.

351
00:21:02,360 --> 00:21:06,520
Okay, let's start at one lakh per month as maintenance, right?

352
00:21:06,520 --> 00:21:11,680
The point where negotiation starts are completely different anyway, both of us haven't worked

353
00:21:11,680 --> 00:21:17,080
in family law, so we should actually shut up and move on to the next question.

354
00:21:17,080 --> 00:21:20,600
The next question is more under your alley.

355
00:21:20,600 --> 00:21:26,920
What's the most unexpected skill you found to be invaluable as a corporate lawyer?

356
00:21:26,920 --> 00:21:29,240
Okay, that's interesting.

357
00:21:29,240 --> 00:21:35,640
I'm discovering new skills that I would need to get better at this profession.

358
00:21:35,640 --> 00:21:39,280
One is that you need to have command over the law.

359
00:21:39,280 --> 00:21:45,200
You need to always be updated on the area of law that you regularly advise on.

360
00:21:45,200 --> 00:21:47,160
That's very, very important.

361
00:21:47,160 --> 00:21:51,160
Apart from that, it's not just important that, for example, I'm a corporate lawyer, so it's

362
00:21:51,160 --> 00:21:56,520
not just important that I'm aware of what's happening in company law or foreign exchange

363
00:21:56,520 --> 00:22:02,040
laws, but it's also important to be able to know as you get more senior in the profession

364
00:22:02,600 --> 00:22:07,320
if there's any changes in some tax laws, because suddenly someone may ask you that.

365
00:22:07,320 --> 00:22:12,240
So I think to be updated on the law is very important.

366
00:22:12,240 --> 00:22:14,840
Attention to detail is also very important.

367
00:22:14,840 --> 00:22:19,600
But more than anything, what I'm realizing now as an in-house lawyer is that you need

368
00:22:19,600 --> 00:22:24,800
to be commercially aware, because as lawyers, like you know the contracts sometimes, like

369
00:22:24,800 --> 00:22:30,520
I said earlier, we are trying to put in as many worst-case scenarios as possible and

370
00:22:30,520 --> 00:22:35,480
how to protect your clients or the people you're advising when this happens, right?

371
00:22:35,480 --> 00:22:40,000
So as lawyers, sometimes during negotiations, you could just get stuck in a loop negotiating

372
00:22:40,000 --> 00:22:43,200
something, and this could prolong the process.

373
00:22:43,200 --> 00:22:47,040
So when you're commercially aware, you need to take a call to see if you can live with

374
00:22:47,040 --> 00:22:53,200
it or not and move on in the interest of the deal and to get the deal done at a good time.

375
00:22:53,200 --> 00:22:57,160
So that is, I think, very, very important as a corporate lawyer, to be commercially

376
00:22:57,160 --> 00:22:58,160
aware.

377
00:22:58,160 --> 00:22:59,160
Wow.

378
00:22:59,160 --> 00:23:00,160
Great answer there.

379
00:23:00,160 --> 00:23:02,320
Do you want to know my answer to this question?

380
00:23:02,320 --> 00:23:03,320
What is that?

381
00:23:03,320 --> 00:23:10,720
The skill that I now find invaluable, which I never thought it would, is having the skill

382
00:23:10,720 --> 00:23:11,720
to read people.

383
00:23:11,720 --> 00:23:12,720
Read people?

384
00:23:12,720 --> 00:23:13,720
Read people, right?

385
00:23:13,720 --> 00:23:14,720
That's all too common.

386
00:23:14,720 --> 00:23:16,760
I'm really bad at it.

387
00:23:16,760 --> 00:23:18,160
I'm really bad at it.

388
00:23:18,160 --> 00:23:22,000
Like after college, I used to go for interviews and I used to, like, I would come back and

389
00:23:22,000 --> 00:23:26,240
say to everyone, like, the interview went really well, and after a couple of days,

390
00:23:26,240 --> 00:23:27,560
I'll receive a rejection.

391
00:23:27,560 --> 00:23:30,440
So I was really bad at reading people.

392
00:23:30,440 --> 00:23:35,160
As a corporate lawyer or whatever you do, as an IP lawyer, as a litigator, it becomes

393
00:23:35,160 --> 00:23:36,400
even more important.

394
00:23:36,400 --> 00:23:42,080
If you are able to understand what's going in somebody's head, it gives you a huge competitive

395
00:23:42,080 --> 00:23:45,080
advantage at whatever you are doing.

396
00:23:45,080 --> 00:23:50,000
I completely agree with that, Avinash, because I think as I'm getting older, you realize

397
00:23:50,000 --> 00:23:53,480
a lot of your job is actually dealing with people.

398
00:23:53,480 --> 00:23:58,240
So when you're good at, like, people skills, it's like half the work is done.

399
00:23:58,240 --> 00:23:59,240
Right.

400
00:23:59,240 --> 00:24:00,640
Yeah, it's all about that.

401
00:24:00,640 --> 00:24:04,960
And you realize that as you get more senior in your career or, you know, as you get older,

402
00:24:04,960 --> 00:24:06,640
that it's all about people skills.

403
00:24:06,640 --> 00:24:07,640
Right.

404
00:24:07,640 --> 00:24:13,000
And, you know, a very interesting study came out a couple of years back, which said if

405
00:24:13,000 --> 00:24:22,120
you compare IQ versus EQ, EQ is a better indicator of your professional success in a corporate

406
00:24:22,160 --> 00:24:24,200
life versus IQ.

407
00:24:24,200 --> 00:24:28,960
So even though you're not smart, if you have good EQ, emotional question for people who

408
00:24:28,960 --> 00:24:31,920
don't know that, you have better chances of succeeding.

409
00:24:31,920 --> 00:24:33,600
So work on your people skills.

410
00:24:33,600 --> 00:24:35,000
Like, that's what I have learned.

411
00:24:35,000 --> 00:24:39,640
Yeah, I completely agree because I think we all have at some point seen that someone could

412
00:24:39,640 --> 00:24:44,520
be the smartest in the room, but there could be someone else who shines more in their career

413
00:24:44,520 --> 00:24:48,440
because they have better people skills or better EQ, like you said.

414
00:24:48,440 --> 00:24:50,400
So that is a very important skill.

415
00:24:50,600 --> 00:24:56,120
Yeah, even though those people get abused in the office's WhatsApp group, but it doesn't

416
00:24:56,120 --> 00:24:57,120
matter.

417
00:24:57,120 --> 00:24:58,120
Right.

418
00:24:58,120 --> 00:24:59,120
That happens in every office.

419
00:24:59,120 --> 00:25:03,920
Like, you know, they say like, OK, this person bought the promotion or bought the raise,

420
00:25:03,920 --> 00:25:06,080
but he or she didn't deserve it.

421
00:25:06,080 --> 00:25:11,640
But a lot of times I feel that's because of their ability to manage people.

422
00:25:11,640 --> 00:25:18,680
But anyway, moving on, the next question is, what's the most common misconception people

423
00:25:18,680 --> 00:25:21,800
have about corporate lawyers and what's the reality?

424
00:25:23,080 --> 00:25:30,720
Oh, there are quite a few, but the most common that I always hear is that lawyers are delaying

425
00:25:30,720 --> 00:25:34,600
the deal or that they want to prolong the deal.

426
00:25:34,600 --> 00:25:39,280
And a lot of people think that the language that goes into contracts, it's unnecessary.

427
00:25:39,280 --> 00:25:43,280
So, you know, they just don't understand why this is required.

428
00:25:43,280 --> 00:25:47,480
And, you know, lawyers are often faced with questions like, do we even need this?

429
00:25:47,560 --> 00:25:48,560
It's delaying the process.

430
00:25:48,560 --> 00:25:50,040
It's delaying the deal.

431
00:25:50,040 --> 00:25:52,520
So I think that is not the case.

432
00:25:52,520 --> 00:25:55,880
Lawyers are actually trying to protect your interests.

433
00:25:55,880 --> 00:26:01,960
Of course, like if something is taking longer than necessary in negotiations, if your lawyer

434
00:26:01,960 --> 00:26:05,800
is negotiating on something and you just get stuck in a loop, then of course you take a

435
00:26:05,800 --> 00:26:08,440
commercial decision to live with it or move on.

436
00:26:08,440 --> 00:26:09,440
Right.

437
00:26:09,440 --> 00:26:13,240
But I think this story that's out there that lawyers, especially corporate lawyers, are

438
00:26:13,240 --> 00:26:16,600
just out to delay your deal or prolong the process.

439
00:26:16,600 --> 00:26:20,520
And they're just adding unnecessary language, which is not important.

440
00:26:20,520 --> 00:26:21,720
I think that's not true.

441
00:26:22,280 --> 00:26:25,480
Lawyers are really, really trying to just protect you.

442
00:26:25,480 --> 00:26:29,000
Yeah, maybe like, you know, we look at every possible worst case scenario.

443
00:26:29,000 --> 00:26:34,760
But I have to tell you that, you know, every clause in a contract, it's put in there because

444
00:26:34,760 --> 00:26:37,400
at some point it's happened somewhere in the world.

445
00:26:37,400 --> 00:26:39,400
And there's actually case law for that.

446
00:26:39,480 --> 00:26:44,920
So I think taking all that into consideration is why we try to make an agreement so watertight

447
00:26:44,920 --> 00:26:47,720
that there's no room for like misinterpretation.

448
00:26:48,440 --> 00:26:53,080
So I would like to make it clear that lawyers genuinely want to protect their clients.

449
00:26:53,080 --> 00:26:57,080
But of course, like if something is going in a loop, that's when you have to use your

450
00:26:57,080 --> 00:27:01,320
skill of being a commercial lawyer and deciding whether you live with it or move on.

451
00:27:02,360 --> 00:27:03,320
Well said.

452
00:27:03,400 --> 00:27:09,240
So if you could make other departments understand just one particular thing,

453
00:27:09,240 --> 00:27:12,760
other than what you just said, what would be that one thing?

454
00:27:12,760 --> 00:27:17,160
One legal concept, one of the legal procedures, what would be that one legal thing?

455
00:27:18,120 --> 00:27:26,840
Oh, so very often we get stuck on like indemnity clauses or representations and warranties.

456
00:27:26,840 --> 00:27:29,240
They're all like very heavily negotiated clauses.

457
00:27:29,560 --> 00:27:33,720
While in an acquisition front, like, you know, usually when you acquire anything,

458
00:27:33,720 --> 00:27:38,040
those deals are like several crores that I think when you work on acquisition deals,

459
00:27:38,040 --> 00:27:43,320
people actually take it pretty seriously and they do take what goes into a contract pretty seriously.

460
00:27:43,320 --> 00:27:46,680
But I think it's only when you're working on like general day-to-day contracts,

461
00:27:46,680 --> 00:27:49,320
like every contract will have an indemnity provision.

462
00:27:49,320 --> 00:27:53,720
And that's when, you know, we just get stuck when I'm like dealing with different departments

463
00:27:53,720 --> 00:27:55,320
saying like, why do we even need this?

464
00:27:55,320 --> 00:27:57,240
Or why are we even asking for it?

465
00:27:57,240 --> 00:27:58,680
And it may not even happen.

466
00:27:58,680 --> 00:28:02,200
Recently, I think I even had a discussion with like a colleague of mine

467
00:28:02,200 --> 00:28:04,520
where they were stuck on this indemnity clause.

468
00:28:04,520 --> 00:28:07,480
And I was just like, we put that because there have been instances

469
00:28:07,480 --> 00:28:09,480
where it has happened at some point, right?

470
00:28:09,480 --> 00:28:12,520
So, you know, tomorrow when someone's coming to you with a claim,

471
00:28:12,520 --> 00:28:15,960
you want to ensure that you're properly protected in the document.

472
00:28:15,960 --> 00:28:18,520
So I think this is when we're trying to explain.

473
00:28:18,520 --> 00:28:22,920
And this is where we get stuck on most of the time in our day-to-day operational contracts,

474
00:28:22,920 --> 00:28:26,280
like a service contract, like, you know, consultancy contract.

475
00:28:26,280 --> 00:28:28,360
This is the clause that we get stuck on.

476
00:28:28,360 --> 00:28:31,720
And this is the clause I'm very often trying to convince

477
00:28:31,720 --> 00:28:35,000
my internal teams that we need it and why we need it.

478
00:28:35,880 --> 00:28:39,000
Yeah. And, you know, some of my friends who are also entrepreneurs,

479
00:28:39,000 --> 00:28:42,840
they also get stuck on this clause or IP assignment.

480
00:28:42,840 --> 00:28:47,160
Like, as you rightly said that until and unless there's an acquisition or a merger,

481
00:28:47,160 --> 00:28:50,040
nobody cares about IP assignment and indemnity.

482
00:28:50,040 --> 00:28:56,840
But people forget that, you know, most of the startups or businesses won't go public,

483
00:28:56,840 --> 00:29:01,480
but there is a very good chance that they would be, you know, acquired or merged.

484
00:29:02,120 --> 00:29:02,840
Yeah.

485
00:29:02,840 --> 00:29:05,960
This is something really hard to explain to other parties,

486
00:29:05,960 --> 00:29:08,520
work from a non-legal background.

487
00:29:08,520 --> 00:29:10,520
So there's a surprise for you.

488
00:29:10,520 --> 00:29:14,440
We have a rapid fire round for this podcast.

489
00:29:14,440 --> 00:29:16,920
I'm sure you know what a rapid fire round is.

490
00:29:16,920 --> 00:29:18,200
So let me just start.

491
00:29:19,080 --> 00:29:23,960
First question is, if you could only use one law for the rest of your career,

492
00:29:23,960 --> 00:29:25,480
what it would be and why?

493
00:29:26,840 --> 00:29:30,200
Oh my God, sorry, I'm failing at the rapid fire already.

494
00:29:30,200 --> 00:29:30,760
Absolutely.

495
00:29:32,360 --> 00:29:33,640
Murphy's law.

496
00:29:33,640 --> 00:29:38,120
And I hope that Murphy's law works in my favor because it's always working the opposite way.

497
00:29:39,320 --> 00:29:42,040
For people who don't know what Murphy's law is, can you explain?

498
00:29:43,000 --> 00:29:47,000
Oh, Murphy's law is, you know, when you expect something to happen

499
00:29:47,000 --> 00:29:50,920
and the exact opposite of it is what is given to you, right?

500
00:29:50,920 --> 00:29:55,320
That's like Murphy's law is meant to have the exact opposite effect.

501
00:29:55,320 --> 00:29:58,520
So I think in my case, like I would want it to work in my favor.

502
00:29:59,080 --> 00:29:59,400
Okay.

503
00:30:00,040 --> 00:30:03,000
What is the funniest thing that has happened in your even career?

504
00:30:03,800 --> 00:30:08,040
Funniest thing has to be, I've had like several all-nighters in office.

505
00:30:08,760 --> 00:30:11,160
It's just a lot of banter with colleagues.

506
00:30:11,160 --> 00:30:13,320
You know, when you're sitting all night working on agreements,

507
00:30:13,320 --> 00:30:15,240
you're falling asleep on the document.

508
00:30:15,240 --> 00:30:17,160
It's just a lot of like, it's fun too.

509
00:30:17,160 --> 00:30:19,000
Like when you're not sleep deprived.

510
00:30:19,000 --> 00:30:20,600
Now when I think about it, it's fun.

511
00:30:20,600 --> 00:30:22,920
At that point, maybe it was not that fun, but now it is.

512
00:30:23,720 --> 00:30:25,640
So moving on to the next question.

513
00:30:25,640 --> 00:30:28,200
If your life is on the line,

514
00:30:28,200 --> 00:30:31,400
which fictional lawyer would you choose to represent you?

515
00:30:32,440 --> 00:30:33,720
My life is on the line, right?

516
00:30:33,720 --> 00:30:35,560
So it has to be a criminal lawyer.

517
00:30:35,560 --> 00:30:36,280
Perry Mason?

518
00:30:37,160 --> 00:30:37,560
Okay.

519
00:30:37,560 --> 00:30:39,880
I'm not aware of the person.

520
00:30:39,880 --> 00:30:42,840
Can you explain what the TV show and where?

521
00:30:42,840 --> 00:30:45,240
No, it's like from, it's a very old...

522
00:30:45,240 --> 00:30:45,480
Okay.

523
00:30:45,480 --> 00:30:46,200
Like, yeah.

524
00:30:46,840 --> 00:30:47,960
I haven't seen it.

525
00:30:47,960 --> 00:30:51,080
I hope some of our listeners might have.

526
00:30:51,080 --> 00:30:53,160
So the next rapid fire question is,

527
00:30:53,720 --> 00:30:57,800
if you could acquire any legal superpower, what it would be?

528
00:30:58,840 --> 00:31:00,200
A photographic memory.

529
00:31:00,760 --> 00:31:03,800
Because, you know, yeah, we need to remember a lot.

530
00:31:03,800 --> 00:31:05,320
So a photographic memory.

531
00:31:06,040 --> 00:31:07,160
Wow. Great answer there.

532
00:31:07,800 --> 00:31:10,520
Do you think that being a lawyer

533
00:31:10,520 --> 00:31:13,480
gives you an edge in winning arguments at home?

534
00:31:14,760 --> 00:31:15,320
No.

535
00:31:15,320 --> 00:31:18,840
In fact, I'm constantly, I do argue at home,

536
00:31:18,840 --> 00:31:20,600
but I'm constantly, like, told that,

537
00:31:20,600 --> 00:31:23,160
oh, God, stop arguing because you're a lawyer.

538
00:31:23,160 --> 00:31:25,080
So it doesn't give me the edge.

539
00:31:26,120 --> 00:31:26,620
Right.

540
00:31:27,320 --> 00:31:29,800
If you could enact one ridiculous law...

541
00:31:29,800 --> 00:31:30,280
Okay.

542
00:31:30,280 --> 00:31:33,000
...that everyone had to follow, what it would be?

543
00:31:34,040 --> 00:31:36,440
Mine would be, you can't use short phrases.

544
00:31:36,440 --> 00:31:39,240
Like, you can't use those uncommon terms

545
00:31:39,240 --> 00:31:41,000
that oldies like us don't know.

546
00:31:41,000 --> 00:31:44,120
Like, I'll ban young people from using the shortcuts,

547
00:31:44,120 --> 00:31:47,480
like TMI or something of that sort.

548
00:31:48,360 --> 00:31:52,680
Mine would be, I detest people who cut lines,

549
00:31:52,680 --> 00:31:55,320
especially in India, like, people just don't understand

550
00:31:55,320 --> 00:31:57,160
the concept of standing in line waiting.

551
00:31:57,160 --> 00:32:00,040
I would like to make a law, like, nothing bothers me

552
00:32:00,040 --> 00:32:02,120
more than someone who cuts lines.

553
00:32:02,120 --> 00:32:05,240
Yeah, so it's a ridiculous law, but I would love to make that.

554
00:32:05,240 --> 00:32:06,840
You are my soul sister.

555
00:32:06,840 --> 00:32:07,560
Trust me.

556
00:32:07,560 --> 00:32:09,880
Like, in my personal life, even I don't understand

557
00:32:09,880 --> 00:32:11,960
why this bothers me so much.

558
00:32:11,960 --> 00:32:12,360
Yes.

559
00:32:12,360 --> 00:32:14,520
And in India, that's absolutely true.

560
00:32:14,520 --> 00:32:15,800
Like, nobody respects the law.

561
00:32:16,360 --> 00:32:17,080
That's right.

562
00:32:17,080 --> 00:32:19,080
I'm happy that you will make that law.

563
00:32:19,080 --> 00:32:19,580
Yeah.

564
00:32:20,440 --> 00:32:21,160
Okay.

565
00:32:21,160 --> 00:32:25,400
If animals could be litigators and corporate lawyers,

566
00:32:25,400 --> 00:32:28,600
which species would be best suited to be a litigator

567
00:32:28,600 --> 00:32:31,880
and which species would be best suited to be a corporate lawyer?

568
00:32:32,760 --> 00:32:33,560
I don't know.

569
00:32:33,560 --> 00:32:36,120
The only two animals that came into my mind

570
00:32:36,120 --> 00:32:38,920
was a shark and an alligator.

571
00:32:38,920 --> 00:32:42,120
I mean, like, a reptilian, you know?

572
00:32:42,120 --> 00:32:46,520
An alligator for a litigator and a shark for a corporate lawyer.

573
00:32:47,080 --> 00:32:48,840
Okay. Great answer there.

574
00:32:50,200 --> 00:32:53,080
So yeah, that brings the end to the rapid fire round.

575
00:32:53,080 --> 00:32:56,280
Did you perform well or did you really fail at it?

576
00:32:56,280 --> 00:32:58,520
I let the listeners decide on this.

577
00:32:58,520 --> 00:33:00,120
Please comment below.

578
00:33:00,120 --> 00:33:02,600
I think I failed very well at the rapid fire.

579
00:33:04,040 --> 00:33:05,640
I let the listeners decide.

580
00:33:05,640 --> 00:33:06,840
Please put in your comments.

581
00:33:07,480 --> 00:33:09,880
So yeah, we just have time for one last question.

582
00:33:10,520 --> 00:33:13,560
In one line, what is the best professional advice

583
00:33:13,560 --> 00:33:15,000
you have received in your career?

584
00:33:15,480 --> 00:33:19,080
I like to take a little bit of what I've heard or observed

585
00:33:19,080 --> 00:33:21,000
from a lot of lawyers that I've worked with

586
00:33:21,000 --> 00:33:23,560
in the 10 plus years that I've been in this profession.

587
00:33:23,560 --> 00:33:26,920
I think one common theme that I've seen in all of them

588
00:33:26,920 --> 00:33:31,320
is that they've always spoken about how you need to work hard,

589
00:33:31,320 --> 00:33:34,840
keep persisting, keep on updating and reading.

590
00:33:34,840 --> 00:33:37,160
Like in law, you need to keep learning.

591
00:33:37,160 --> 00:33:39,800
You may even have to keep learning at like 860.

592
00:33:40,440 --> 00:33:42,600
So very often these days, I think like, you know,

593
00:33:42,600 --> 00:33:44,680
especially the current generation,

594
00:33:44,680 --> 00:33:46,280
everyone wants like faster results,

595
00:33:46,280 --> 00:33:48,200
lesser work hours and everything, right?

596
00:33:48,200 --> 00:33:51,160
While I'm all for work-life balance and that is important,

597
00:33:51,160 --> 00:33:54,120
I think it's very important to work hard,

598
00:33:54,120 --> 00:33:57,640
keep updating yourself on the law and keep at it.

599
00:33:57,640 --> 00:34:00,040
Like, you know, you should be willing to pull in those hours

600
00:34:00,040 --> 00:34:01,960
to be successful in this field.

601
00:34:01,960 --> 00:34:04,440
And this is something that I have seen common

602
00:34:04,440 --> 00:34:08,440
across all the lawyers I admire from like my previous jobs

603
00:34:08,440 --> 00:34:10,760
and everything that this is what they've always said.

604
00:34:10,760 --> 00:34:11,960
And I've taken it with me.

605
00:34:12,840 --> 00:34:13,880
Great advice there.

606
00:34:14,680 --> 00:34:16,600
Thanks a lot for coming on this podcast.

607
00:34:16,600 --> 00:34:18,280
It was really interesting,

608
00:34:18,280 --> 00:34:21,240
even though you didn't do really well in the rapid fire round,

609
00:34:21,240 --> 00:34:23,640
but that is really entertaining.

610
00:34:23,640 --> 00:34:24,760
Thanks a lot for joining us.

611
00:34:24,760 --> 00:34:26,600
Thank you so much for having me Avinash.

612
00:34:26,600 --> 00:34:27,400
Thank you.

613
00:34:27,400 --> 00:34:28,440
It was our honor.

614
00:34:29,560 --> 00:34:33,640
That brings us to the end of this insightful episode

615
00:34:33,640 --> 00:34:35,400
with Sampriti Sridhar.

616
00:34:36,120 --> 00:34:39,880
We hope you found her insights as valuable as I did.

617
00:34:40,520 --> 00:34:42,440
If you enjoyed this episode,

618
00:34:42,440 --> 00:34:45,640
make sure to subscribe to LexDiscuss Cafe

619
00:34:45,640 --> 00:34:49,160
for more conversation with incredible professionals

620
00:34:49,160 --> 00:34:50,120
like Sampriti.

621
00:34:50,760 --> 00:34:52,440
Thank you for tuning in

622
00:34:52,440 --> 00:34:56,440
and we will see you next time with another engaging guest.

623
00:34:57,160 --> 00:35:03,720
Until then, keep learning and stay inspired.