Podcast with Abhishek Nema, Legal Counsel at BioUrja Trading LLC.

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Welcome to LexDiscuss Cafe, the podcast where we dive deep into the legal world, unraveling

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complexities, and shedding light on fascinating legal stories.

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This is your host, Avinash Tripathi, and today we have a remarkable guest joining us, Mr.

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Abhishek Nema. He is a seasoned legal expert with over a decade of experience and he has

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wore multiple hats in the legal arena. From practicing law in the High Court to becoming

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an in-house counsel, Abhishek has done it all. He is not only adept in legal subjects

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but also an efficient manager, keen observer, and an amazing negotiator.

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But that's not all. Abhishek isn't just about legal jargon and courtrooms. In his spare time,

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he transforms into a wordsmith, a Hindi writer who weaves poems and stories.

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Yes, you heard that right. Legal documents by day, lyrical verses by night. So whether you're

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a legal enthusiast, a curious mind, or simply someone who appreciates the power of words,

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this podcast episode promises to be a delightful journey.

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Buckle up as we explore legal intricacies, unravel our guests' unique experiences,

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and maybe even sneak in a poetic line or two. Without further adieu, let's start this podcast.

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So Abhishek, thanks a lot for joining the podcast. It has been a privilege to host you as a guest.

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Thank you so much, Avinash.

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It's completely our pleasure. So let's jump right in. What motivated you to shift from

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practicing in High Court to becoming an in-house counsel? And how has your courtroom experience

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shaped your approach in the corporate legal world?

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So Avinash, frankly speaking, my first love was litigation.

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Okay.

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So when I moved after the college, I started to practice before the Jabalpur High Court,

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and the other district court in the Madhya Pradesh High Court. That I decided during my law college

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that I will practice, I will go back to Madhya Pradesh, and I will start practice there. Then

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I joined a chamber of relatively young lawyer who would have a decent number of cases being

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handled by him. And during my litigation practice, what I realized, the legal world is not as same

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as we are told in the college. I noticed that the clients prefer more experienced lawyers. They do

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not care from which college you have passed out. And if you are in the second or third generation

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of a lawyer family, you will have their own client from the beginning. But I am the first

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generation lawyer. So what I realized, it will take me another five years to build a name in the

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bar, where I will have my own client with decent money. So I need some money in backup to

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survive for these five years. But unfortunately, what happened, my father had to take VRS due to

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the health issue. And it was not today that I asked him to send me more money for the next five

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years. So that time I got an opportunity with Ruchi Soya Industries Limited. I interviewed there.

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They were looking for some trademark attorney. And during my college, I worked on some IP matters

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during my internship. So I got selected. And this is the way I came into corporate legal world. So it is

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basically not motivation. It was the circumstances because of this, I came into corporate legal department.

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Wow, such an honest response. And quite true. The experience that you had is experienced by a lot

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of lawyers who joined litigation and then turned into the in-house counseling. Right. And now

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coming to your second question, the courtroom experience helped me to certain extent in the

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corporate legal world. See, when you joined in-house in some corporate legal, the first thing, my first

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was told to me. Okay. But what helped me, that is, I learned two things during my litigation practice.

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That was the client counseling and finding the right bench. Okay. When I was working in-house

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counseling, so what we are supposed to do, we are supposed to gather and collect information from the

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internal stakeholders of the company whenever the legal problems comes. Right. We need to counsel

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them. The skill that I learned from my senior for the counseling, I utilized that in the in-house

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role. And you have a problem and you have filed some court cases. You need to find out what is

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the root of the judge. See, a lawyer knows the law and a good lawyer knows the judge. This is the

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basic fact. So we keep patience. Whenever we appear in the court with our external advocate,

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we first try to find out what would be the mood of the judge today. And if we say that something

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is going unsavorable, we try to delay the things. And whenever we find the right judge, are we saying

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that now the jury made past some order in our favor, then we put our case. So this is the

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two things that I learned during my litigation practice. And the third most important thing,

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that is the drafting. So when I joined my senior in litigation, I was drafting from the first day

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because I learned drafting during my internship in the college. So when I joined in-house role,

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what was the trend that time in Ruchi Soya and also most of the company in around 2011 and 2012.

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The in-house counsel used to work as a postmate between the external counsel and the company.

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They were giving all the information to the external counsel and every work being done by

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the external counsel. But I denied that I can add value to the company in this case. So what I

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started, I was given mostly the trademark portfolio. So I observed how my external counsel was delayed

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for these matters. And then I said, I understand my boss. Why not? I can start filing trademark

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application on my own. I can start drafting opposition, counterstatement,

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and the affidavits on all these, which are related for the trademark practice.

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And we hired the external counsel only in case of the hearing. That helped me a lot to grow in

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the organization. And it proved my worth. And you want to believe after one year, I got 52% increment

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in the organization. That's it. That is the key. I completely understand that must be quite rare.

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Abhishek, you know, you shared an honest story. And you know, the position you were in,

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that you have been practicing for a couple of years in litigation, and then you see that if I am a

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first-generation lawyer, it will take me 5-6 years. And then you seek a transition from litigation to

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a corporate role, or at least a role where you're earning a living wage.

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So how should they approach this?

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See, first and foremost thing, you should read, as much law as you can.

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If you find out some good senior who can pay you well, at least a minimum wage. And if you're not

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paying, you can think about moving to the in-house because the in-house company pay you that decent

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salary in the beginning, but you need to plan the interview. So for that, you need to get the

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knowledge of law. So I always suggest people to come prepared in an interview with the legal

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knowledge. If you don't have legal knowledge, no company will entertain you.

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Very wise words there, Abhishek. When you say legal knowledge, are we supposed to

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memorize all the bare acts? Are we supposed to keep updated with the latest judgment?

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It is not the case.

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So can you be a little more specific as to when you say you should have legal knowledge,

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what exactly that knowledge is?

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You should have the basic knowledge, basic concept you must know. You should know what

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is the case. We are talking about the law of contact. You must know what is the free consent.

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If the consent is not there in the context, what would be the outcome?

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What is the liquidated damages? What is the representation and warranty?

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So these are the basic concepts you need to know. How the documents are exhibited.

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These are the basic concepts. You need not mug up the section. You need not remember the

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section number. Even you do not need to remember the title of the case law.

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Only you need to know what is let down in that particular case law.

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Exactly. Because when you need, you can always do a little bit of legal research and find out.

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So in your experience, what are the best sources to gather these basic concepts?

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See, generally what I do, there are some legal articles are there. There are books are there.

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So whenever a problem comes, what I do, I read the provision.

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I read the commentary of that provision and find out some cases.

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When you read the case, you find some other cases.

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And this is the way your knowledge will enhance.

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Wow.

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And so this is the only thing that you can do.

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Reading, reading as much you can, right?

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You have to read anything.

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Right.

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As long as it's not a magazine or something on Instagram, right?

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No, no. Even if you are reading a magazine, you can get some good content from there also.

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Right.

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There can be useful in future or any of the dispute

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or any of the legal problems that you face in your day-to-day life.

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Right. But if it is a legal magazine, I'm talking about like...

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Not only legal magazine. See, we cannot read the legal things always.

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You will get irritated. You will get bored.

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Right.

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So sometimes you have to read something that you like.

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Yeah.

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So you will gain the habit of the reading with that.

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Absolutely. I agree.

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Like, if you are in that phase where you don't even have the habit of reading,

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just read anything, right? Just build that habit.

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And once you have inculcated the habit of reading,

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then you start to focus on, you know, which are like, you know,

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core to your subject or the thing that you're trying to master.

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And one of the things that I have experienced in my professional career

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is that there is a very specific reason that we have to do a graduation before doing law.

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So you need to have some kind of understanding of how society, how history works.

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What has happened in the past 200, 300 and 400 years

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to kind of understand why these laws are the way they are.

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So if you are in that habit building phase, what I'll say,

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reading history books or political science book or even philosophy,

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everything will help you.

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Yes, as you think that Roske-Portn had said,

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lawyer is a social engineer and you need to balance the different aspects of the society.

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So you need to know what the society is.

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Very well said.

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Moving on to the next question, you have mentioned that you are a community mediator.

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Can you share an experience where your skills as a community mediator

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were crucial in resolving a pre-litigation dispute?

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First, I discussed what is this community program, right?

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So during the first phase of the COVID-19, somewhere in June 2020,

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MP Salsa, they thought that they need to train some members of different communities,

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different casts, so that they can resolve the dispute

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between their community members at the pre-litigation state itself.

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And our community, that the NEMA community was one of them,

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and we were the first, we were the pioneer.

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So around 20 people from my community, from them, some were the advocates,

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I was the in-house counselor, there were some social workers.

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They were given 20 hours training of mediation.

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Generally, to become a mediator, you need 40 hours training,

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but we were given a stop training of 20 hours.

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That is the case.

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And after that, we established the Pro-Verno Mediation Center

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in different cities in the Madhya Pradesh.

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So what happens whenever there's a dispute,

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and people know that the community has a mediation center,

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they approach us.

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So what happened, just there one case,

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one of the community members, he was having a restaurant.

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And during COVID-19, what happened, that his business was affected,

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and he could not pay his staff.

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So naturally, a dispute arose between the owner of the restaurant and the staff.

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And the staff threatened that if you do not pay, I will go to the police.

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This is the thing that the normal people will do.

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And that person came to us, and we told that we can resolve your dispute,

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if provided your staff also comes to our center.

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And fortunately, the staff also came.

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Then we consulted both of them.

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We had a talk with them.

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We arrived in the mediation, generally, during the joint session,

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when you conduct a session in front of both the parties,

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and there is a single session.

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The single session, you meet one party at one time.

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So in single session, what we came to know that

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the result of the dispute is something else.

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It is not the case that the staff was not paid.

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So what we came to know for the last three years,

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the owner did not increase the salary of the staff.

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So that was the actual reason that we came to know in the single session.

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Then we talked to the owner and told that

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whether you want to return the staff or not.

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He told that he very well needed the staff.

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Because of the COVID-19 situation, there is a shortage of staff also.

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So then we told him that why don't you offer an increase in the salary?

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And if you increase, we think that they would be ready to serve you.

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And he won't file any case or he won't take any extra money with you.

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He also agreed.

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We made a settlement agreement.

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And till now, I know that that staff is serving that restaurant.

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So this is the way that when you mediate,

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you will find out the actual vision of the dispute

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may be something else.

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And something else is presented before the forum.

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If you go to the normal course, you will get the outcome

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what you present to the court.

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You won't get the actual remedy that you are looking for.

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Because it is never the case the lawyer will hold your case

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according to the law and according to their convenience.

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But in the mediation, you will find out the actual remedy.

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And that can be fruitful and long-serving for your business and for you.

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Wow, very great insights there.

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Now let me ask you a fun question.

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If animals would pursue legal careers,

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which species do you think would excel as litigators?

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And which animal would be suited for an in-house council role?

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This is something, I think there are what we call the fox.

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The foxes are very much suited to the litigation thing.

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Because they are cunning, they know each and every thing.

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And if you think about the in-house,

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it would be elephant that would be suited for the in-house role.

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Wow, they're diplomatic and have a great memory.

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Great answers there.

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Great answers there.

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Abhishek, we all know that you have extensive experience.

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Since you graduated from law college,

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how have you observed the legal landscape evolve, especially in India?

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If we see that in India,

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we have borrowed all the concepts from the English system.

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The court system that we are following,

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that is all given by the Britishers.

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And before the Britishers, they were having their own panchayat system.

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So the Britishers developed the system for their own convenience.

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Because the people were agitating against them.

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Establish a support system where you can punish the people.

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But when we got the independence.

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What we did, we copied all the systems from them.

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We were copying everything from them.

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We copied it.

225
00:15:36,300 --> 00:15:41,340
And then we did not think what is required to be suited to our present society.

226
00:15:41,340 --> 00:15:42,860
We did not think about it.

227
00:15:42,860 --> 00:15:45,100
But when we developed the board,

228
00:15:45,740 --> 00:15:47,980
and also there is change in the governance,

229
00:15:47,980 --> 00:15:50,860
you can see that when the arbitration act was enacted.

230
00:15:50,860 --> 00:15:55,180
So there are some more concepts that we are following from a long time.

231
00:15:55,180 --> 00:15:59,420
Even in 1996, we adopted some of the things from the 1950 act.

232
00:15:59,420 --> 00:16:03,980
But when this 2015 and 2019 amendment came,

233
00:16:03,980 --> 00:16:05,980
you will see that in 2019,

234
00:16:05,980 --> 00:16:08,700
there is a concept of the Arbitration Council of India.

235
00:16:08,700 --> 00:16:10,300
Generally, what happens today,

236
00:16:10,300 --> 00:16:14,700
the arbitrators when there is no agreement or after the dispute party do not agree,

237
00:16:14,700 --> 00:16:17,660
you need to approach under section 11 report the high court.

238
00:16:17,660 --> 00:16:20,540
And the high court will appoint the arbitrator.

239
00:16:20,540 --> 00:16:23,020
And it is a time-consuming process.

240
00:16:23,020 --> 00:16:26,860
So in 2019 act, there is a concept of the Arbitration Council of India

241
00:16:26,860 --> 00:16:28,620
and the Arbitration Institute.

242
00:16:28,620 --> 00:16:29,980
And there is a grading system.

243
00:16:30,940 --> 00:16:33,820
Now, if this is implemented and not enforced yet,

244
00:16:33,820 --> 00:16:39,020
the Arbitration Council of India has been notified about it that it starts functioning.

245
00:16:39,020 --> 00:16:40,540
So once this will happen,

246
00:16:40,540 --> 00:16:43,180
you need not approach under section 11 to the high court.

247
00:16:43,740 --> 00:16:47,020
In our old times, there was a punchayat system.

248
00:16:47,020 --> 00:16:49,020
So whenever the dispute occurred,

249
00:16:49,020 --> 00:16:53,340
no people would go to the king and tell him to give us a punch

250
00:16:53,340 --> 00:16:55,020
which would settle our dispute.

251
00:16:55,660 --> 00:17:00,060
There was society, there were bodies who were having their own punch.

252
00:17:00,060 --> 00:17:04,700
We say that this arbitrator is the invitation of our old punch-ass system.

253
00:17:04,700 --> 00:17:06,220
This is not exactly the case.

254
00:17:06,860 --> 00:17:08,540
That time, there was separate body,

255
00:17:08,540 --> 00:17:11,580
there was separate community who were having their own punch.

256
00:17:11,580 --> 00:17:15,980
And who used to pronounce the judgment which was obeyed by the people.

257
00:17:15,980 --> 00:17:19,260
And only in rare cases, people were going to the king.

258
00:17:19,260 --> 00:17:20,220
That was the system.

259
00:17:20,780 --> 00:17:23,100
But what is happening in our system,

260
00:17:23,100 --> 00:17:25,580
the arbitration party approach to the high court

261
00:17:25,580 --> 00:17:27,900
and the high court will appoint the arbitrator.

262
00:17:27,900 --> 00:17:32,460
So this is the case that I think we need redefine our law

263
00:17:32,460 --> 00:17:34,620
as per our needs, as per our system.

264
00:17:34,620 --> 00:17:38,860
And we need not blindly copy what has been given by Britishers to us.

265
00:17:39,820 --> 00:17:41,660
Wow, very wise words.

266
00:17:41,660 --> 00:17:43,260
Great insights there, Abhishek.

267
00:17:43,260 --> 00:17:46,620
I don't know, one of the things that I found really irritating

268
00:17:46,620 --> 00:17:49,100
when I was also litigating was that, you know,

269
00:17:49,100 --> 00:17:55,500
our insistence on wearing black suits in the hot summer of Delhi.

270
00:17:55,500 --> 00:17:56,300
Summer?

271
00:17:56,300 --> 00:17:59,020
Why don't you ask them let me wear Kurta and Pajama

272
00:17:59,020 --> 00:18:00,460
That would be the case.

273
00:18:00,460 --> 00:18:04,060
Which is suited for the climate of our own country, right?

274
00:18:04,060 --> 00:18:04,700
Yes.

275
00:18:04,700 --> 00:18:05,660
And one more thing,

276
00:18:05,660 --> 00:18:09,020
why do we have English language in the Supreme court and High court?

277
00:18:09,020 --> 00:18:11,500
In the high court, we can have the native language.

278
00:18:11,500 --> 00:18:14,940
In the Supreme court, we can Hindi or we can also have the other language.

279
00:18:14,940 --> 00:18:18,300
We say that the people in the south, they do not understand Hindi.

280
00:18:18,300 --> 00:18:20,140
So they also may not understand English

281
00:18:20,140 --> 00:18:22,300
because English is also foreign language to them.

282
00:18:22,300 --> 00:18:24,700
And why do not we adopt Sanskrit in that case?

283
00:18:26,460 --> 00:18:30,060
Sanskrit, that's a controversial opinion.

284
00:18:30,060 --> 00:18:33,660
That is a controversial opinion, but you can use English.

285
00:18:33,660 --> 00:18:35,020
It is also a foreign language.

286
00:18:35,020 --> 00:18:37,340
Why not use the other language of the country?

287
00:18:37,900 --> 00:18:39,500
Right, exactly.

288
00:18:39,500 --> 00:18:42,140
And you know, some people from the south will argue

289
00:18:42,140 --> 00:18:45,900
that Tamil is actually older than Sanskrit.

290
00:18:45,900 --> 00:18:47,660
So Tamil should be the default language.

291
00:18:47,660 --> 00:18:50,380
But yeah, it should be the Indian language.

292
00:18:50,380 --> 00:18:52,060
That's exactly what my point is, right?

293
00:18:52,700 --> 00:18:55,500
I don't care whether it is Sanskrit or Tamil,

294
00:18:55,500 --> 00:18:57,500
but it would be better than English.

295
00:18:57,500 --> 00:18:59,500
But unfortunately, that's not the case.

296
00:19:00,300 --> 00:19:03,260
So moving on from very insightful answer,

297
00:19:04,060 --> 00:19:06,780
we have been told from verified sources

298
00:19:06,780 --> 00:19:09,900
that you are really concerned about mentorship

299
00:19:09,900 --> 00:19:13,180
and knowledge sharing within the legal community.

300
00:19:13,180 --> 00:19:14,940
Why do you think it's so important?

301
00:19:16,060 --> 00:19:19,420
See, what I think in the legal profession,

302
00:19:19,420 --> 00:19:22,540
nobody will teach you how the law is practiced.

303
00:19:22,540 --> 00:19:26,060
So it is not basically that giving lecture to your juniors

304
00:19:26,060 --> 00:19:29,020
and make them prepare for the legal problem.

305
00:19:29,100 --> 00:19:31,820
It is the mentor that you have to mentor them

306
00:19:31,820 --> 00:19:33,260
and how it can be mentored.

307
00:19:33,260 --> 00:19:34,940
When you are a litigating senior,

308
00:19:34,940 --> 00:19:37,740
what you will give, you will give them the brief.

309
00:19:37,740 --> 00:19:39,660
Okay, they will read the brief

310
00:19:39,660 --> 00:19:43,500
and they will find out how you have drafted a particular case

311
00:19:43,500 --> 00:19:46,140
and how you have argued just before the court

312
00:19:46,140 --> 00:19:48,620
and that you expect your junior.

313
00:19:48,620 --> 00:19:50,140
They ask some query.

314
00:19:50,140 --> 00:19:52,140
They ask the question whatever they have

315
00:19:52,140 --> 00:19:53,820
and then you satisfy them.

316
00:19:53,820 --> 00:19:55,900
Similarly, when I am in the in-house role,

317
00:19:55,900 --> 00:19:57,500
for example, there is a contract

318
00:19:57,500 --> 00:19:59,260
which had come for review to me

319
00:19:59,260 --> 00:20:01,020
and I have given it to my junior

320
00:20:01,020 --> 00:20:02,380
that you make the first review,

321
00:20:02,380 --> 00:20:04,380
I will make the second review of it.

322
00:20:04,380 --> 00:20:08,860
So my junior has given certain point he edited the document

323
00:20:08,860 --> 00:20:11,500
and then what I will do, I will review it

324
00:20:11,500 --> 00:20:14,300
and I will not tell, what mistakes you have done.

325
00:20:14,300 --> 00:20:15,900
I will just reply to it

326
00:20:15,900 --> 00:20:20,540
and will ask my junior to find out what changes I am making.

327
00:20:20,540 --> 00:20:23,180
If you have any question, you can come to me.

328
00:20:23,180 --> 00:20:26,940
I will satisfy you why some of your changes were discarded

329
00:20:26,940 --> 00:20:28,460
or I further edited.

330
00:20:28,460 --> 00:20:31,100
So this is how the knowledge is transferred

331
00:20:31,100 --> 00:20:32,620
in the legal profession.

332
00:20:32,620 --> 00:20:35,100
So this is exactly the mentorship case.

333
00:20:35,100 --> 00:20:37,020
This is not that I am giving the lecture,

334
00:20:37,020 --> 00:20:39,340
what is this concept, what is that concept

335
00:20:39,340 --> 00:20:41,340
that I presume that they should know

336
00:20:41,340 --> 00:20:42,860
and they should read by themselves.

337
00:20:43,900 --> 00:20:46,540
Wow, you touched a very real topic.

338
00:20:47,180 --> 00:20:49,420
One of the things which used to baffle me a lot

339
00:20:49,420 --> 00:20:52,540
is the work culture that we have in litigation and law firm.

340
00:20:53,100 --> 00:20:55,420
Because you have seen that transition

341
00:20:55,420 --> 00:20:59,100
and in a limited aspect even I have seen that transition.

342
00:20:59,100 --> 00:21:00,540
Why do you think that's the case?

343
00:21:00,540 --> 00:21:04,940
Why in litigation, the juniors are treated so badly

344
00:21:04,940 --> 00:21:07,420
or is it just my misunderstanding that's not the case?

345
00:21:08,620 --> 00:21:11,660
Though I tell you one of the senior in the NP Hypo

346
00:21:11,660 --> 00:21:15,340
he used to say that the lion gives his to anybody.

347
00:21:16,860 --> 00:21:17,900
This is the answer.

348
00:21:18,780 --> 00:21:20,140
That's right but yes.

349
00:21:20,140 --> 00:21:21,020
Yes, yes.

350
00:21:21,020 --> 00:21:21,820
So this is the thing

351
00:21:21,820 --> 00:21:24,300
because they are also treated by their senior in that way.

352
00:21:25,260 --> 00:21:28,380
Your father beat you, so you beat your child.

353
00:21:28,380 --> 00:21:30,780
This is the thing which is coming from the generations.

354
00:21:31,660 --> 00:21:33,660
But now the things have started to change.

355
00:21:33,660 --> 00:21:35,580
I am seeing that some of the seniors

356
00:21:35,580 --> 00:21:37,740
they are paying not very good amount

357
00:21:37,740 --> 00:21:39,500
but as per their arrangement

358
00:21:39,500 --> 00:21:42,700
they are saying that they are able to meet the requirement.

359
00:21:42,700 --> 00:21:44,860
So this is the case now the trend is changing

360
00:21:44,860 --> 00:21:48,460
and I hope that it will encourage junior to be in litigation.

361
00:21:49,900 --> 00:21:53,900
So do you think litigation has a worse work culture

362
00:21:53,900 --> 00:21:56,540
than the average corporate legal department in India?

363
00:21:57,500 --> 00:22:00,140
The litigation work culture I am talking about

364
00:22:00,140 --> 00:22:03,020
when you are practicing as a lawyer you will learn a lot.

365
00:22:04,140 --> 00:22:06,380
As far as the legal things are concerned

366
00:22:06,380 --> 00:22:08,060
but when you go into in-house

367
00:22:09,020 --> 00:22:11,660
not only the legal thing you will also learn the other thing.

368
00:22:11,660 --> 00:22:12,860
You will learn accounting.

369
00:22:12,860 --> 00:22:14,300
You will learn management.

370
00:22:14,300 --> 00:22:15,500
You will learn marketing.

371
00:22:16,060 --> 00:22:17,420
No, that's absolutely fine

372
00:22:17,420 --> 00:22:19,260
but it's about the learning aspect.

373
00:22:19,260 --> 00:22:21,260
I am talking about the work culture.

374
00:22:21,260 --> 00:22:23,180
Like I have seen firsthand that

375
00:22:23,180 --> 00:22:24,940
a junior makes a mistake

376
00:22:24,940 --> 00:22:27,660
and his senior is literally shouting at him

377
00:22:27,660 --> 00:22:29,100
or her for that matter.

378
00:22:29,100 --> 00:22:31,660
But if you work in a corporate department

379
00:22:31,660 --> 00:22:35,660
then maybe you don't feel so much pressure.

380
00:22:35,660 --> 00:22:36,620
Is this true?

381
00:22:36,620 --> 00:22:37,420
Does this happen?

382
00:22:38,220 --> 00:22:39,260
Sometimes it is, such.

383
00:22:39,260 --> 00:22:41,580
But by luck my senior in litigation

384
00:22:41,580 --> 00:22:43,260
he was not about that.

385
00:22:43,260 --> 00:22:47,420
So what happened in one of the cases he asked me to appear

386
00:22:47,420 --> 00:22:48,460
there was a confusion.

387
00:22:48,460 --> 00:22:51,180
I forgot on whose behalf I was appearing.

388
00:22:51,180 --> 00:22:52,860
They did not meet anything.

389
00:22:52,940 --> 00:22:55,020
And what happened that case was dismissed.

390
00:22:55,020 --> 00:22:55,580
Okay.

391
00:22:55,580 --> 00:22:57,180
Then my senior just told me

392
00:22:57,180 --> 00:22:58,940
that because of your mistake this happened

393
00:22:58,940 --> 00:23:00,700
but happens it is not a problem

394
00:23:00,700 --> 00:23:02,860
but you need to be very careful in the future.

395
00:23:02,860 --> 00:23:03,980
Did not shout at me.

396
00:23:04,700 --> 00:23:05,500
Okay.

397
00:23:05,500 --> 00:23:06,540
But I tell you

398
00:23:06,540 --> 00:23:09,180
there are some super senior in the litigation

399
00:23:09,180 --> 00:23:11,100
they think that if they shout their senior

400
00:23:11,100 --> 00:23:12,540
it will make their reputation.

401
00:23:12,540 --> 00:23:14,700
This is the case I have also seen.

402
00:23:14,700 --> 00:23:16,620
But when you are the in-house counsel

403
00:23:16,620 --> 00:23:18,620
so your boss is also an employee.

404
00:23:18,620 --> 00:23:20,060
So company has a culture.

405
00:23:20,780 --> 00:23:21,100
Yeah.

406
00:23:21,660 --> 00:23:25,500
So then boss also has to be responsible to the management.

407
00:23:25,500 --> 00:23:25,820
Yeah.

408
00:23:25,820 --> 00:23:28,700
And I think very hard to find the resources

409
00:23:29,420 --> 00:23:30,140
in the market.

410
00:23:31,660 --> 00:23:32,860
If you shout at them

411
00:23:32,860 --> 00:23:35,740
there is always a possibility that you will lose them.

412
00:23:35,740 --> 00:23:38,060
So this is the thing that in-house

413
00:23:38,060 --> 00:23:41,340
you have a modest work culture just in comparison to the litigation.

414
00:23:42,220 --> 00:23:42,540
Wow.

415
00:23:43,180 --> 00:23:44,780
Very real insight.

416
00:23:44,780 --> 00:23:46,380
Because you know what used to happen like

417
00:23:46,380 --> 00:23:49,500
when I was litigating or interning under some senior

418
00:23:49,500 --> 00:23:50,300
so they will say like, you must know this already.

419
00:23:51,820 --> 00:23:53,820
and even he knows and I know that

420
00:23:55,820 --> 00:23:57,260
and if I knew all this,

421
00:23:57,260 --> 00:24:00,220
then why would I be working with you for free?

422
00:24:00,220 --> 00:24:01,100
It's like you know

423
00:24:01,100 --> 00:24:03,740
few years later when I was hiring people for marketing role

424
00:24:03,740 --> 00:24:04,860
or for sales role

425
00:24:04,860 --> 00:24:06,860
and I used to say that you should know all this.

426
00:24:06,860 --> 00:24:09,660
They used to say, sir this is your work culture.

427
00:24:09,660 --> 00:24:12,940
As an organization it is your responsibility to teach me.

428
00:24:12,940 --> 00:24:13,180
Right.

429
00:24:13,180 --> 00:24:13,740
Yeah.

430
00:24:13,740 --> 00:24:16,060
If you teach me a couple of times

431
00:24:16,060 --> 00:24:17,580
and I am not doing it after that

432
00:24:17,580 --> 00:24:18,620
then it is another thing.

433
00:24:18,620 --> 00:24:19,340
Dont expect it the

434
00:24:19,340 --> 00:24:20,780
first time from me

436
00:24:20,780 --> 00:24:22,300
See even in the house

437
00:24:22,300 --> 00:24:25,180
when we have any junior commits a mistake first time

438
00:24:25,180 --> 00:24:26,460
we accept it.

439
00:24:26,460 --> 00:24:27,820
The second time he commits

440
00:24:27,820 --> 00:24:29,660
we will ask him to rectify it.

441
00:24:29,660 --> 00:24:31,420
But third time when he commits

442
00:24:31,420 --> 00:24:32,620
I will take a class.

443
00:24:32,620 --> 00:24:34,060
That is my work culture.

444
00:24:34,940 --> 00:24:35,580
That's fair.

445
00:24:35,580 --> 00:24:37,180
That's where I can understand.

446
00:24:37,180 --> 00:24:37,500
Yes.

447
00:24:37,500 --> 00:24:37,820
Yes.

448
00:24:38,380 --> 00:24:41,180
So as we are running out of time

449
00:24:41,180 --> 00:24:43,820
this is the time for rapid fire question.

450
00:24:43,820 --> 00:24:45,660
So the first one is

451
00:24:45,740 --> 00:24:49,340
if you were a new addition to a color box

452
00:24:49,340 --> 00:24:51,980
what color would you be and why?

453
00:24:52,620 --> 00:24:53,740
It is a blue color

454
00:24:53,740 --> 00:24:55,580
because I like the blue color most.

455
00:25:03,180 --> 00:25:04,540
Well said as a corporate lawyer.

456
00:25:05,100 --> 00:25:07,260
So the second rapid fire question is

457
00:25:07,260 --> 00:25:10,460
what's the funniest thing you have ever heard in your legal career?

458
00:25:11,420 --> 00:25:12,780
Let me think about it.

459
00:25:12,780 --> 00:25:13,260
Yeah.

460
00:25:13,260 --> 00:25:16,140
That is the thing that you're working as in house

461
00:25:16,140 --> 00:25:18,380
and whatever that thing is coming to your company

462
00:25:18,380 --> 00:25:20,300
whether it is a simple letter

463
00:25:20,300 --> 00:25:22,860
people will come to you and they will seek your guidance

464
00:25:22,860 --> 00:25:25,020
and they will take your help to write it down.

465
00:25:25,580 --> 00:25:28,220
This is the funniest thing that I always come across

466
00:25:28,220 --> 00:25:30,140
but that is the thing we have to help them.

467
00:25:31,100 --> 00:25:31,740
Okay.

468
00:25:31,740 --> 00:25:32,940
Next question is

469
00:25:32,940 --> 00:25:35,340
if you could be any superhero

470
00:25:35,340 --> 00:25:39,260
which one would you be and what would be your superpower?

471
00:25:40,540 --> 00:25:42,780
I think you have read Chacha Chowdhury.

472
00:25:42,780 --> 00:25:43,740
Yeah, yeah, absolutely.

473
00:25:52,860 --> 00:25:56,380
The best answer I have heard on this question so far.

474
00:25:56,380 --> 00:25:59,740
So yeah, that brings an end to the rapid fire round.

475
00:25:59,740 --> 00:26:02,540
So we just have a time for one more question.

476
00:26:02,540 --> 00:26:04,220
Now the question is

477
00:26:04,220 --> 00:26:06,140
what is the best advice

478
00:26:06,140 --> 00:26:08,300
or what is the best professional advice

479
00:26:08,300 --> 00:26:10,380
you have heard in your career so far?

480
00:26:11,340 --> 00:26:14,540
This is the thing that I learned from my first work

481
00:26:14,540 --> 00:26:16,460
in Ruchi Soya from Mr. AD Rao

482
00:26:16,460 --> 00:26:17,500
when he told that

483
00:26:17,500 --> 00:26:20,140
that brother you have to become a legal manager.

484
00:26:20,140 --> 00:26:22,860
So besides law you also need to know

485
00:26:22,860 --> 00:26:24,780
how to manage the tools.

486
00:26:24,780 --> 00:26:26,300
How to manage the people.

487
00:26:26,300 --> 00:26:27,340
Yeah.

488
00:26:27,340 --> 00:26:28,700
So this is the thing that

489
00:26:28,700 --> 00:26:31,500
besides law we need to collect all over this

490
00:26:31,500 --> 00:26:34,700
and you cannot be master of none being in the house

491
00:26:34,700 --> 00:26:36,540
but you have to be jack of all trades.

492
00:26:37,580 --> 00:26:39,420
Very wise words.

493
00:26:39,660 --> 00:26:42,220
So this brings an end to this podcast.

494
00:26:42,220 --> 00:26:44,620
Abhishek, thanks a lot for joining the podcast.

495
00:26:44,620 --> 00:26:46,060
It was an absolute pleasure.

496
00:26:46,860 --> 00:26:47,820
Thank you, thanks so much.

497
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And that concludes the first part

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of our conversation with our guest.

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To our audience

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00:26:54,460 --> 00:26:57,180
remember that legal knowledge isn't just for lawyers.

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00:26:57,980 --> 00:26:59,980
Today's episode serves as a reminder

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that the law isn't confined to dusty books.

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It's alive, evolving

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and intricately woven into our daily experiences.

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As always stay curious, stay caffeinated

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00:27:12,460 --> 00:27:13,980
and stay legally savvy.

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If you enjoyed this episode

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00:27:16,380 --> 00:27:18,380
don't forget to hit that subscribe button.

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00:27:18,380 --> 00:27:20,780
You won't want to miss the second part of this podcast.

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Also don't forget to share and like

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to make the algorithm gods happy.

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This is your host Avinash Tripathi signing off.