In a compelling episode of LexDiscuss Cafe, hosted by Avinash Tripathi, the spotlight turns to Kashika Sinha, Legal Manager Counsel at JLL. This episode explores her journey in the legal world, the impact of AI on legal practices, and much more.
Introduction
Kashika Sinha, a notable figure in legal management, shares her experiences and insights in this engaging podcast episode. As the Legal Manager Counsel at JLL, her journey is a testament to resilience, dedication, and the evolving role of AI in the legal field. This blog post delves into the key highlights of her conversation with Aviansh Tripathi.
The Journey to Legal Management at JLL
Kashika’s path to becoming a Legal Manager Counsel at JLL is filled with pivotal moments and significant challenges. Her journey began with a strong foundation in law, fueled by a passion for justice and a keen interest in commercial contracts and statutory compliance. Kashika’s narrative is inspiring, showcasing her determination to excel in a competitive field. She shares anecdotes from her early career, highlighting the obstacles she overcame and the milestones she achieved, ultimately leading her to a prominent role at JLL.
Unveiling JLL
JLL, often recognized by its ubiquitous logos on buildings, plays a crucial role in real estate and property management. Kashika provides an insightful overview of JLL’s operations, explaining how the company facilitates real estate transactions, manages properties, and offers a range of services in the real estate sector. Her explanation demystifies JLL’s functions, emphasizing the importance of legal expertise in ensuring compliance and smooth operations within the company.
A Day in the Life
A typical day for Kashika at JLL is dynamic and multifaceted. She describes her daily responsibilities, which include negotiating contracts, addressing compliance issues, and collaborating with various departments to ensure legal adherence. Kashika’s role requires a keen eye for detail and an ability to navigate complex legal frameworks. Her day-to-day activities reflect the diverse challenges faced by in-house counsels and the crucial role they play in safeguarding a company’s legal interests.
AI and Legal Practice
Artificial Intelligence is revolutionizing the legal landscape, and Kashika’s expertise in commercial contracts and statutory compliance positions her at the forefront of this transformation. She discusses the ways AI is reshaping legal practices, from automating routine tasks to enhancing the accuracy of legal research. Kashika envisions a future where AI assists in drafting contracts, conducting due diligence, and predicting legal outcomes, ultimately making the role of in-house counsels more efficient and strategic.
Intersecting Interests
Kashika’s passion for human rights and finance law beautifully intersects in her current work. She explains how these areas influence her legal approach, ensuring that ethical considerations are integrated into financial dealings and contractual obligations. Her commitment to human rights adds a unique dimension to her role, demonstrating the importance of a holistic perspective in legal practice.
Symbiosis Law School Noida vs. Pune
Reflecting on her education at Symbiosis Law School Noida, Kashika compares her experiences with those of the prestigious parent institute in Pune. She highlights the unique aspects of each campus, emphasizing the quality of education and opportunities available at both. Kashika addresses the perception of preferential treatment for students from Pune, advocating for equal opportunities and recognition for all Symbiosis Law School students.
Leveling the Playing Field
Promoting equality across campuses is a topic close to Kashika’s heart. She discusses the initiatives that can help level the playing field for students, ensuring that talent and hard work are the primary criteria for success. Kashika’s insights underscore the need for transparency and fairness in academic and professional environments.
Rapid Fire Round
The rapid-fire round with Kashika is both insightful and entertaining. Here are some highlights:
- Favorite Legal Drama Series: Kashika reveals her top pick, offering a glimpse into her personal interests.
- One Law to Change: She shares the legal reform she would champion, reflecting her commitment to justice.
- Fascinating Legal Developments: Stay updated with Kashika’s insights on recent legal trends.
- Morning Ritual: Discover the one thing Kashika can’t start her day without.
- Most Rewarding Aspect of Her Job: She highlights the heart of her legal work.
- Go-To Stress Buster: Kashika’s secret remedy for managing stress.
- Symbiosis Experience in One Word: A succinct descriptor that encapsulates her educational journey.
Debunking Legal Myths
Kashika sheds light on common misconceptions about the legal profession, challenging preconceptions and offering a realistic perspective on the demands and rewards of being an in-house counsel. Her insights help demystify the legal field, making it more accessible to aspiring professionals.
This episode of LexDiscuss Cafe is a treasure trove of knowledge and engaging dialogue. Tune in to gain valuable insights from Kashika Sinha and stay updated with the latest trends in the legal world. Don’t forget to subscribe to LexDiscuss Cafe for more enlightening conversations with legal experts!
Transcript
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Hey guys, welcome to another episode of LexDiscuss Cafe, where we bring you insights
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and stories from some of the most influential and dynamic professionals in the legal industry.
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Today, we are thrilled to have Kashika Sinha on our podcast, who is currently working with
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JLL.
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Now, let me tell you something about Kashika.
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She is a graduate from Symbiosis Law School, Noida, and she has also held pivotal roles
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at renowned organizations such as ENY, Atkins, and Envolta, showcasing her expertise in contract
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management, client negotiation, and compliance advisory.
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So let's welcome Kashika to the podcast.
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So Kashika, thanks a lot for joining LexDiscuss Cafe today.
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Thank you, Avinash.
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The pleasure is all mine.
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I would like to express my gratitude for having me here, and also thank you so much for giving
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me this platform to express whatever little bit of journey I have come across by doing
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this.
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You are very humble.
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I don't think we have done good enough to be, you know, to be given gratitude or something.
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We are just trying to, you know, create engaging content.
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So let's move on.
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Kashika, could you share with us the journey that led you to become a legal manager, counsel
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at JLL?
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I started with Symbiosis, that's a college in Noida, Symbiosis International University,
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that is one of the branches that is there in Noida.
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In 2016, I graduated, and however, during my college time, also, I was doing lots of
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internship in law firm and high court and in company as well.
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So from the very beginning, I had this inclination towards company because I thought that
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gave me a bigger picture always.
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Why?
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Because in the law form, there's one deal or one contract is there, right?
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And then once you draft the contract, negotiate it and just close, sign that.
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Now when in the company, when you move, you'll see how the contract really comes into play
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even in the real life, like how we are actually implementing the KPIs or liquidated damage
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clause or indemnity clause in the real life, like how the claim is coming and how we are
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going towards litigation and things like that.
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So that gave me a more, like I thought that it gave me a more visibility on what is actually
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happening and it is also somewhere connected to my interest in how the business actually
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works.
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So that's why I decided to start with in-house and then I moved to Calcutta for some
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reason.
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And in 2017, I started with Envolta, it's an in-house service provider company, mainly
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providing radiation services and commissioning and inspection and things like that.
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And since it's a new office that they incorporated at that point of time in Calcutta, I was the
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sole legal member.
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And being the sole legal member, everything was kind of entrusted on me, be it the contract
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due diligence, things, and also visiting the courts, consumer of matter if they have any.
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So that gave me bits of everything and also an exposure towards all the aspects of comprises
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and what are the security things that I need to take care of, what are the agreements and
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things like that.
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So I worked there for one year and then I was sure that I would like to further venture
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towards this part of aspect of the corporate world, knowing more about how business and
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legal really intersected in real life.
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Then I joined ENY, I was not in their in-house team, I was in their service line wings where
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I was a part of their contract drafting solution.
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I joined ENY in around 2019 and they were already using automation tools for contract
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drafting.
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So I really find that fascinating, like AI we are talking about today, they were already
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using those tools to provide contract drafting and contract life-cycling management solutions
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to their site.
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I was working for one of their big clients, Unilever, and I was working and what we used
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to do, we used to draft the contracts on all those different jurisdictions.
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Over there I gained a lot of exposure towards a variety of contracts that we have.
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I was never aware that a company had to enter so many different kinds of contracts, joint
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ventures, SaaS, service agreement, merchandise agreement, marketing agreement, things like
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that and tripartite agreement and the AI part then I was explaining that.
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So there used to be plugins and we used to enter the details and then you have to automatically
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generate the vanilla contract, we used to call vanilla contract because they are boilerplate
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terms and nothing greater than that.
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So those were the things that we were used to do and I did that for two and a half years
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three years and I found that I would like to expand my horizon a bit more so that's
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why I have joined JLL.
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JLL is a real estate company, completely different from what ENY was.
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ENY where there was a mostly restricted contract drafting and they were the service provider
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in that domain but JLL I was in their in-house team.
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I was put up in Bangalore and over here my exposure was a bit larger than JLL because
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not only contract it was also legal advisory, stakeholder management, setting out the process
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of how to increase the efficiency in the team, how to train the business to understand that
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system and also how to solve the common query, compliance sales and also EHS.
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And if you know JLL is a real estate company, it's a Fortune 500 company and it has a presence
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across 92 countries and I was responsible for managing the IFM, they are one of the
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service lines facility management and I am responsible for managing their facility management
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service contracts and vendor agreements and all the complaints for India, Sri Lanka and
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Bangladesh.
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So over here I was given an exposure of not only the draft in the compliance aspect of
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it and how the labour companies are actually working, what are the gratitude clause, why
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we need to take care of that and what are the schemes that we get.
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So that has been my journey quite far like from a service provider professional services,
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I am paid in a service industry only but the exposure is a different aspect like first
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it was a legal team of a service provider industry used to go and supply the services
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like irradiation services and inspection, EY was more into contract drafting using
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AI solutions and tools management and now JLL is completely different with respect
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to there it's a mainly a manpower oriented industry where they are supplying the manpower
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for facilitating your offices and things like that.
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So what are the labour issues that come, what are the labour compliance that I have to take
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in mind, we know we don't need to take any liability just because our persons are going
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there and performing services.
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So yeah, those are the journey that happened so far.
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Yes, interesting and you know see we all have seen the JLL logo right because they a lot
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of time is plastered over very posh buildings or posh offices around right but I understand
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a very few people actually know what JLL does right because I have been given this introduction
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by a very good friend of mine he used to work for JLL right so for our listeners would
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you care to give a very crisp description of what JLL does and what a typical day of
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yours looks at JLL.
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So JLL is basically a real estate consultancy services so when you talk about real estate
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and everything that is associated with real estate JLL does it in a whole whether they
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are doing it in India or whether they are doing it outside the world whether it's construction
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brokerage, needs admin, property development like starting from suggesting you to where
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to invest your property whether you have to construct the building like for example if
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an MNC comes whether to suggesting the MNC whether to buy the land or buy the or take
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out property from the developer to how to develop that property the designing the construction
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what is the cost that will be involved in it what is the facility management everything
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so it is like everything with related to real estate all the same that is the crispest definition
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yeah that great answer there so my next follow-up question is what a typical day looks like
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for you yeah so a typical day begins I told you I work in one of the service lines so
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that is the facility management right wherein we manage the facility of the client like
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Oracle, Facebook they have a big offices we manage their facility so we have two type
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of agreement one with the client and one with the vendor for subcontracting so my
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typical day starts with what what kind of agreements are there reviewing of the agreement
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then talking to the stakeholders there are two agreements so the for the client at agreement
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if there is some negotiation or the deal is or RFP that is going on talking to the stakeholder
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on understanding what we can negotiate on what are the point where they can let go so
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with contract negotiation and drafting and talking to the stakeholder and managing my
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contract risk takes majority of my time second time will come with respect to the vendor
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agreements wherein again what are the issues that vendors are facing what are the claims
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that we are getting to claim management little bit of advisory where that person takes away
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around like contract drafting negotiation formulating the strategy to come to the client
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so that we close the deal as soon as possible that takes majority of my time apart from
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this stakeholder management then compliances and a little bit of advisory and now right
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now I have few juniors so training them mentoring them and setting out the process to increase
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the in-house team efficiency that also takes little bit of time not in a typical day but
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yeah in a week I have to also think about that and strategize that wow so with your
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commercial contracts and you know statutory compliance so we know you have worked with
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AI right and you have worked with commercial contracts before and you know the combination
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of AI and commercial contracts is pretty used case and you have worked on such tools do
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you think there is a potential for AI to disrupt some of the tasks or problems that are faced
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by in-house sponsors in a statutory compliance area so in the statutory compliance area the
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one of the challenging part is to keep a regular monitor of what is going on what is
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the new legal program that has come up and how we should align with ourselves with it
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so AI tool right now we have not been adopting AI into that extent where they can just guide
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us that these are the new compliances that is coming up and you have to accordingly change
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your agreements to that so for example what happened sometime there is some development
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in some labor compliance aspect and now we have to change some particular clause in that contract
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and it is applicable to all the 40 or 50 or 100 vendors that we are employing so over there the
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tasks of doing that entering into that addendum and that thing get sometime a very monotonous
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and overbearing tough because you are doing the same thing over all the 50 or 100 contract you
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are replicating the clauses so over there I think AI can take a step and that is one of the challenge
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we do face sometimes where any single change in the law and you need to go back to the drafting
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addendums and things like that right and sometimes keeping up with compliances can be burdensome as
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well like because you know compliances can be coming from 50 organizations right so just because
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you are a real estate company doesn't mean that you know foreign investment compliances are not
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coming into the picture sometimes they might sometimes they don't so he manually going and
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keeping yourself updated that's a burden itself isn't it exactly for example if I give you an
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example if I find providing security services in Maharashtra and Haryana there are two different
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compliances that I need to take into account so I need to pass on the two different set of guidelines
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and regulations to my vendor for two different states so the statewide compliances also there
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widely compliant the factory and then stop shop and establishment after this are all state-centric
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wherein it varies state to state typically number of hours also vary sometimes state to state so
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over there the problem lies where keeping it up and also think like and also keeping in mind like
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where your site locations are actually where your app performing the service it was most of our clients
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are pan-india so you have to also to keep that in mind so although that little bit of challenge
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where that man our work that increases absolutely though it is something which is brain stimulating
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like it is very simple you have to just keep print tab but it takes your time absolutely and you know
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these days like in-house councils of majority of MNCs are not doing just the legal work of India
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they are also doing the legal work of you know Sri Lanka Bangladesh and all the neighboring
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countries right a lot as well so then you don't have to just worry about Indian compliances you
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also have to worry about what's happening yeah exactly for example most of the time now enter
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into the global agreement where they have a one agreement globally and they they form a local
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agreement for different countries in that you have for every country there has to be a local
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that is applicable to them and also the tax implication so that's what the tax finance legal
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everything goes all together in a contract wow and sometimes keep it up to it like if I get
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assistance through AI where they can say then these are the neighbor regulations that is applicable
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for particular countries those are the plugins so that will be a good help absolutely so moving on
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to the next question you have mentioned a strong inclination towards human rights and finance law
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how do these intersect in your current work so our human rights is a lot of human right I told you
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that our company mostly they are labor-centric because we subcontract most of our work like
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for example it's the facility management services right where we manage the facility of our client
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so it is there are works like janitorial work and labor work where we employ blue-collared
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persons so we do formulate the policies to make sure that they are as per the legal compliance
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apart from this we also are coming up with different kind of projects and policies in line
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with what is there in the legal regulations in regard to for example currently I'm working on
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one of the one of the projects wherein we are trying to make jail more friendly towards people
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with disabilities right so these are proper act under the law which talks about that there should
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be a infrastructure which should be accessible friendly to people with disabilities and these
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are proper united nation guidelines and charter on and government wants us to follow it so we
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being a real estate service provider we would like to have such policy inculcated in our HR
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system as well as we also provide such policies as the advice to our tribe to make their
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infrastructure more friendly with regards to the people with disabilities so currently I'm also
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working on this project which allows me in some way in small way to deal with this human right
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aspect where I'm trying to make the place more friendly towards them the poll because when you
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sit together you don't understand which right we don't think about that there might be some
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people who are not feeling as equal as we are because we don't have any disability current
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right I have also interviewed some people who are having people with disability and I have also
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spoken to them in order to understand what they actually go through right though we don't make
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them feel like that but in some way we don't know we don't intentionally make them feel like that
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right different intentions occur to us but in some way they may they might feel something different
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is there and that is the thing that we are coming up with and that is the thing I am liking one of
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the aspects is that wow I'm really happy to hear that you know JLL is doing this amazing work and
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you're part of that no some of our computers all it has also been certified to be the best place
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for people with disability so so we are also in that look to formulate such policy engage people
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with such and such things so that it become more inclusive culture to promote that
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wow so tell us about SLS Noida right because they know we it's like a sister institution of
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Symbiosis Law School Pune so have you ever visited there once same about Symbiosis Law
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School Noida and what's different about Symbiosis Law School Noida when we compared it with the
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original parent institution see this is the same college and we're coming under in the
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international university so it's the same college they opened a new branch in Noida which was in
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2011 and I was a part of the second so the same thing would be the curriculum the FETS
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the module their exams and semesters and things like that the different things
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what would be the infrastructure maybe they have also come up with a new campus
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so yeah so that and otherwise all everything is same I think I think that Symbiosis has a very
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strong alumni network so we still go and lean into ours with alumni we still have that group
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we still maintain those connections where we still take a leverage from being the partisan
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by so yeah that was that that is there in Pune and Noida that is the best absolutely and you know
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being in Noida you are very close to companies right so all the yeah all the companies which
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are based out of Delhi NCR right it's approachable being in Pune you don't have that much access
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because even though Pune and Mumbai is like two and a half hours away but two or three hours
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depending on which train you're taking right so but still it seems like a very different world
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but if you're staying in Noida you can easily go and intern in Gurgaon right yeah that is there
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yeah the exposure is there but I think all the big law firms are there in Mumbai also
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right so I'll ask you a controversial question is that you know when people from Symbiosis come in
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and it's like those Symbiosis Noida there so Symbiosis Pune people always get a preference
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so do you think that's true and if yes how can we change that
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I don't think that is going to change in the next 10 years because Symbiosis Pune is a very
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old institute they have a heritage they have a legacy here they they will always use that
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that you guys are like all 10 years old we are here for a generation so I think they've no
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point of fighting that battle on which is better but yeah but there is a bit of
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thing like yeah you're from Noida we are from Pune we are the originals
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yeah but yeah but I mean the network and peers and everyone they will help you
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wherever you are so it doesn't matter at that point but yeah from a joke perspective
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they will always be this thing yeah you know see the same thing happened with most of the
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national law schools as well so if you look at the national law schools ranking a lot of things
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aligns with their inception date so the older a national law school is the better the ranking
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it would have but somehow National Law school Delhi jumped yeah that's what I saw that's a
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bad phrase right so National Law school Delhi is quite late to the party but I don't know
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I think it was around 10 or 9 they they also started with that yeah it was in 2008 or 2009
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I think they started in 2009 because I gave the examination for their first batch
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I wasn't selected but I did give the examinations I think it was they started in 2009
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so somehow they skipped that rule right that the older the colleges the better ranking you could
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have right and it I think in some way not joining the clad also helped them because they're only one
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of the I think the only national law school which is not part of clad right so I don't know what is
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the current scenario these days but right so do you think symbiosis law school loiter somehow by
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not using the symbiosis name would have had a better chance of like you know creating its own
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legacy I don't think so I think it's good though because I don't think because there are lots of
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law schools that right right right so the Symbiosis what is only the thing that is
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making them different because otherwise there is not a law school in Noida only
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so they are yeah so that's not adding the name would have been helped yeah so yeah that's that's
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actually quite fair quite fair argument because I forgot like you know it's national law school
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Delhi so what made a national law school very different was the national law school and the
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fact that it was in Delhi which wasn't the case earlier right and at least at that time there
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was no national law school in Mumbai right so that's also kind of helped them because most
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like there was no national law school in the two most important cities in India right Delhi and
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Mumbai I think the government asked for Mumbai but that was right that was not so that was
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comparative to CLC Delhi right campus law center Delhi so GLC and CLC were always compared with each
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other because they were like really old a lot of people don't know GLC is actually older than the
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degree right so GLC started even before we had an lb degree
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so yeah GLC you can't compare with the heritage of CLC and GLC uh so they are definitely the
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original father and mother uh I don't know which one is father which one is mother
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I think but they should definitely be considered that right so now we are at the of this uh
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interesting topic we we have a surprise for you so we want to pick a rapid fire round with you
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in full Karan Johar style you have to answer the uh the questions very quickly so are you ready
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yeah where's are the lights these are lights anyway yeah like you should be asking for hamper
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right we have a lot of people so we'll get you a hamper maybe it won't be as good as
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the Karan Johar one but uh my thinking my expectations are very minimum
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I thought about light
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yeah let's play the garib rapid fire round the first question is which is your favorite
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legal drama series I don't watch legal drama series
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I don't know I have not I have not seen any so maybe some
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pass I've not seen so well I thought that it is bar guy I'll be a hide down and they kick
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up like that type stuff I don't find that I have not seen any other series maybe some
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random movies series I find it fake all in English stuff is majority by fake right
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like we used to yeah if you want to see the series the drama go to go to go to district
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court and family court you will be there so the next question is one law you would change if you
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could one law over time that law has already been changed now the dowry law that were there
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immediate arrest that that is dangerous sometimes people used to misuse it women a lot of times I
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would say yeah yeah no obviously there are a lot of genuine cases as well yeah yeah women cases
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but yeah that that law should have been changed yeah so why why that specific law have
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have anyone close to you been you know subject on that not like that but I find it like some of the
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laws are like especially in your family now when you are dealing with divorce and all so some of
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the laws are bit woman-centered but maybe not so much electric maybe they
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easily leverage they can easily use the loopholes right yeah so those kind of laws
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we can just have more gender equals approach towards it but yeah the condition of girls in
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India I think it is right like that absolutely and you know in a lot of way I think it's not
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a bad thing what worries like what my two cents on this topic is that instead of fixing harsh laws
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we should be fixing the delay in the judicial process right so see the problem doesn't happen
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is that you have misused the law right you have wrongly alleged someone see that's just part of
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the problem now the factor that makes it even worse in that right there's a huge delay in
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actually getting and actually deciding whether that allegation was right or wrong right sure
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so if that delay can be shortened right so even if somebody is the wrongly accusing you it will
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be sorted in a year or right so see there is more denying that they have systematic patriarchy
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in Indian society right so women should be given preference but how much that's I think is question
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for people more smarter than me so go ahead and leave it to them next question
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recent legal development you find fascinating
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recent legal development I think with regards to the data that they have come the data the
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personal data act where the penalty is very high on the breaches so I would like to see how it will
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really work because recently I read in the news the boat co-founded is a huge data breach that
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has occurred so I would like to see how that will come into effect because right now the penalty is
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500 crores I think for the data breach yeah I'm not aware I should probably read up on that
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so moving on to the next question one thing you can't start your day without
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I'm wanting my phone I'm addicted badly so
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okay I'll ask a hard question the most rewarding aspect of your job rewarding aspect of your job
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ah rewarding that they are rewarding the rewards coming bits and pieces like when
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did a good deal that good got closed and then get out recognition and all things like that
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this interview is of the right kind of reward okay a lot of people who have come down here would
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would like to dissection but let's move on uh your go to stress buster go to stress buster I like
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swimming so that is one of the things dancing is also one and I'm talking to my friend
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absolutely last question one word to describe your experience as some voices you asked for
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ah memory oh wow very diplomatic answer
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uh
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so yeah as we are running out of time I'll ask just one more question right what is the
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common misconceptions about legal profession that you would like to address so there are a lot of
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misconceptions but like with in-house uh there's one of the misconceptions that they are just to
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support function so it's and that's also they are just to support
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legally for the support function and they they delays on contract without any reason
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they just say that it is a risk it's a risk I don't see any risk
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I that that's absolutely on the point so Kashika thanks a lot for coming on this podcast it was
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really uh entertaining and informative thank you so much for having me here yeah yeah yeah
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you're reading my name okay I forgot I talked it too so no worries no worries it happens to me as
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well so thanks again uh we hope if we do some panel discussion or uh podcast we'll be more
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than happy to invite you again definitely definitely I would like to join let me know
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if we hope our audience has enjoyed this deep dive into the legal world and has taken away
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meaningful insights that can be applied to their own careers if you enjoyed today's episode please
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don't forget to subscribe rate and leave us a review stay tuned for more episodes featuring
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incredible guests who are making waves in the legal profession until next time this is your
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host Avinash Tripathi signing off thank you for listening