Podcast with Niyati Ojha, Legal Counsel at HP India

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Ladies and gentlemen, welcome back to another episode of LexDiscuss Cafe, where we dive

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into the fascinating world of law with some of the sharpest minds in the legal industry.

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Today, we have got a special treat for you.

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Joining us is somebody who is not only a powerhouse in corporate law, but also an intellectual

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property expert.

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Please give a warm welcome to the legal counsel at HP India, the incredible Niyati Ojha.

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So Niyati, thanks a lot for joining us on podcast today.

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Thank you so much.

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It's always my pleasure.

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Thanks for calling me here.

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I'm so excited.

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And I don't know what's in store, but I think it's going to be a fun conversation.

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We hope so.

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So first up, can you share with us your journey from an associate at law firms to your current

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role as legal counsel at HP?

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So I'm not going to start from my journey as an associate, rather I'll take a little

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more of a back step.

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Let's go a little bit back.

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So I always wanted to be a lawyer.

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So for me, I think I was in the seventh standard when I decided I wanted to be a lawyer.

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I had told my parents and everybody, and this is the thing, I'm not really like that, but

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sometimes when parents would be like, you're not a doctor, you're not an engineer, why

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are you getting into law?

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So my parents were really supportive and they said, okay, she's decided she wants to be

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a lawyer.

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Let's just help her with whatever she wants to do.

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I start and that was the time they did not have class, we had independent examinations,

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it's only a test for the entrance exam.

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So I wrote all of those entrance exams and missed a few by some marks and then eventually

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everything worked out the way that I got into ILS law college where I did my graduation

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inquiry.

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So that was actually the way we started, that gave me my landing page and that's how I started

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the entire career.

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Now being a first generation lawyer, you're very clear of the fact that you go on most

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of the things, right?

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Whatever your college teaches you, this is what it is.

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Nobody in my family was also a lawyer.

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So it was a big shock even for my family that they'll be getting a lawyer in my family,

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but that's how it started.

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So imagine ILS law college is a legacy college, right?

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And you have all your legal legends who are there and they used to come and they used

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to give us speeches.

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Imagine this first year, second year law student with starry eyes, you're being so sure that

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she's going to be like, you can get a lawyer, she's going to be one of them there.

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Because law at that time was never a corporate lawyer person, you walk away, you're down,

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you walk away, you're blind and that's what you are.

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So I was also on the same journey that this is what's going to happen with me once, right?

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Very clear.

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It's so ironic that I was actually the head coordinator of my colleges place myself, right?

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So getting people to get a job in public office is what I used to do, but I did not pick

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the place.

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My mother used to be like, you are so stupid, why aren't you doing this?

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I didn't pick the places I wanted.

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I want to be a lawyer, I want to be a litigating lawyer, that's my thing.

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So it started off then there, I graduated and then I obviously interned at a lot of

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places, I understood things.

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But internship, I have been at that time also, you don't know what's happening, right?

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You're just like, it's just going on.

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So internship happened and then I finished college and then I joined law firm.

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And that was where it was the most surprising part for me, right?

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So I joined the law firm, the litigation department for sure, right?

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You will not believe after a while, I was just like, this is not made for me.

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I have not made the doses at all, right?

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And I used to come back home crying in the evening and I used to be like, why did I pick

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this position?

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So for me, the biggest problem or I would say, such a shock was the fact that imagine

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this girl, 7th standard, has flagged that she wants to be a lawyer and now when she's

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actually reached that stage, it's just not working out.

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And I was so desecrated and it was really difficult.

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And then at that time, I was working in a law firm beside other departments, like litigation

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and I spoke categorically to my manager and I was like, I can't be on litigating law.

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I cannot go to court every day.

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This is not happening.

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And he was like, now what next?

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I had one plan in my mind.

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I had zero planning.

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Now I can do what we need to do, right?

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So it was really helpful.

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And he said, OK, let's go to another department.

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Let's see how we'll figure out.

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We'll take it from there.

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Yeah, I said, give me something that I can say, because I was not expecting what

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that another such a shock was.

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So I think he had a vision, which I think then he said, oh, let me put you on the IP department.

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And I think that was in 2013, it was good.

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It was very upcoming.

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There was a lot of potential.

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Obviously, it still is, but imagine that time.

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And so I went into the IP, too.

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Absolutely no knowledge about IP, because in college, I've never taken an IP.

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I've not taken anything.

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All my options have also been taken to litigations, only because that's what I wanted to do.

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So I got into IP, and as I was doing IP, I started learning from the basics, got a lot of experience.

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Obviously, then I realized that, yes, I do have an interest in continent law, in intellectual property law,

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that side of the blocks, the litigation side.

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But then back then, I said bye, a very sad, tearful goodbye to my gowls and everything.

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And I said, OK, I'll come back to you later, if it's going to ever happen.

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So my journey has been like from starting from there, I could become a law firm lawyer,

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like an associate was so dramatic.

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So then life happened.

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This happened. I was being a part of really good intellectual property.

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What was the exact cause?

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What was the cultural shock in the litigation?

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Nobody knows, in the college, we are not aware of what it's going to be like in litigation.

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We have seen in the movies that there's this Katgara, where the people come in,

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and you'll rarely find Katgaras in the actual courts, especially in the NIST.

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So that's definitely is there.

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But to a person who, from the seventh or eighth class, had just one plan that I was going to be a litigator,

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what happened that, you know, you got so congested against litigation?

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So I've got a lot of time to think, right, from the time I left litigation till now,

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to actually pinpoint what the exact reason could have been.

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At that particular time, I wasn't able to determine it.

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But when I got a lot of time to think, I would say, personally, I was at the wrong place at the wrong time.

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And that was one very big looming that I had.

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So let me explain.

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So I've been born and raised in Chennai, but I am not a South Indian.

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So I do have a language barrier.

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But everybody would say that, literally, I've been born and raised there.

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The least you can do is learn their language.

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But Pahal is very difficult.

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Let's not even try to understand that.

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So while I was in the school, I never had that kind of exposure in school,

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because I was at a cognitive school, and they needed only English to be our depending language.

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So I never got influenced to learn Pahal the way I was supposed to.

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And so the only thing I knew was my domestic help and my driver was there.

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Of course, they don't have good music.

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You were practicing in Chennai?

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I wasn't, yes.

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So I finished college and I came back to Chennai, where I was born.

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So I decided, when you start, let me start from a home ground.

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I at least have a lot of, it's a comfortable environment, right?

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So that was my intent.

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I don't deny that high courts have English as their primary language,

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but imagine an associate is not going to go and argue with the high court on the first day.

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She's going to do registry works, she's going to go into the lower courts and all.

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And there, the primary language was coming, right?

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So for me, language barrier became such a huge deterrent to be able to go there the next day.

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So they would, like, they asked from the associate that the other company would have been very simple.

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She'd go get that micra listed for the next day.

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It would be as popular as that.

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But for me to go to the registry to explain to them that I need to be listed on the other day,

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I need all of these things, that became a little problematic position for me.

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So that was one big learning, which I also found by students when I teach them, like, you know.

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So I would look for places which had more inherent comfort.

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And language is one very important thing.

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Now, imagine something from Delhi and going and working in the Calcutta High Court to make it.

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And so that kind of a divide, it was very difficult for me at that time.

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And the second thing is, I also believe if you do not have a good senior, right,

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or somebody who is actually willing to forget the money part of it or anything,

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somebody who's not willing to teach you, somebody who still believes that an associate is just

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freshly graduated, an associate is somebody who has to carry your bags or carry your file, you know.

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And no, you're just taking an adjournment.

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So if you have that kind of a senior who puts themselves over you,

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I think that would have, that's always a decision.

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And while I don't blame any company or anybody from where it started,

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but unfortunately, I've never had those kind of seniors who would have guided me to say that,

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OK, listen, your work is just not to carry your bags, right.

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Your work is more than that.

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And of course, it takes a longer duration to reach where he's standing,

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but there's a path to it.

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So that was a huge problem for me at that time.

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And I feel if I would have been at a more conducive place,

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like even for example, even Mumbai or Bombay High Court for that matter,

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like Pune, I studied in Pune, so Mumbai would have been a better option for me.

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So even a Bombay High Court may have been a better decision.

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But I think at that time, you're so young, you're so like me,

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you're very shy, you're so funny, you just want to go back home.

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You just want to stay at home ground.

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So probably that's the reason when I shut it, I'd be shut.

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So that's what happened with me.

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Kind of makes sense.

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You know, I can completely relate to your story.

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You and I share a lot of commonalities when it comes to career trajectory.

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So I also graduated from Pune, just FYI.

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I was partying with their page.

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Yeah, it's very true.

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It's like both of us are from the same place.

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Exactly.

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So that's pretty much.

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And you know, I completely agree with the lack of having seniors,

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especially in the early part, right?

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Who are willing to kind of teach you or who are willing to kind of guide you.

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And you know, probably both of us lack that.

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That's where we are so enthusiastic about educating the next generation.

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Yeah, you get it, right?

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But I'll give you a caveat over there, right?

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A difficult boss is a different thing.

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And a boss who is not willing to teach you is a different, right?

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So I would say having a first difficult boss, like, you know,

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it's a really good thing, like in the hindsight.

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So in the hindsight, what I see, like, you know,

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the first couple of years when I was working in the law firm,

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it was really difficult and they were really demanding.

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And, you know, there were so many things, right?

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But that kind of initial exposure groomed me to tackle so many great things

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in the later part of my life, right?

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So if you are unhappy with the boss, that is not a bad thing.

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But at the same time, make sure that, you know,

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that the boss is making your life difficult,

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but you are also getting learning out of it, right?

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The boss is willing to teach you or at least tell you,

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OK, go and read these things, then come back to me, right?

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So that's definitely true.

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So, yeah, litigation is a tough part of story.

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Not knowing the language definitely was a big barrier.

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So what about other local languages, like, you know,

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are you comfortable in Marathi, Hindi or something of that sort?

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So, language, it's always English and Hindi.

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Hindi is what we speak at home and English is of course what we discuss.

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So that said, I can speak Tamil.

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It's not that I cannot speak Tamil at all,

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but the Tamil would always have a slang attached to it.

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Most of the times, my colleagues and peers in Chennai would never understand

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that they would make so much fun of it.

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You know, when we were working, like when I was working in Chennai,

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the plan was stable conversation.

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There used to always be a segment where the team will speak in Tamil

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so that all of us can have a good laugh and unwind our day.

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And I would be like, OK, and they would speak in Tamil that time.

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So it's not that I cannot speak, I cannot understand.

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It's just maybe it wasn't so fluent.

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And especially that time, then I stayed in Chennai after graduating.

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That's when I picked up a lot more Tamil.

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But at that time, it was very bad.

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But let me ask this question.

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Do you think like switching from litigation to other fields

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instead of switching your region, moving from Chennai to say North, right?

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Was that the right move in your opinion in the hindsight?

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In hindsight, I would have done better if I had moved regions for sure.

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See, I'll tell you something.

231
00:13:45,240 --> 00:13:48,120
And with time now, experience teaches us a lot of things, right?

232
00:13:48,120 --> 00:13:49,800
With time, I've realized something.

233
00:13:49,800 --> 00:13:53,680
If a person has a passion for something, they will surely excel at it.

234
00:13:54,160 --> 00:13:56,000
OK, it's just the word of passion.

235
00:13:56,000 --> 00:13:58,280
Now, law for me was a passion.

236
00:13:58,280 --> 00:14:00,840
It was not something that somebody forced me into it.

237
00:14:00,840 --> 00:14:04,200
And there's a very close to a heart reason or a reason for me

238
00:14:04,200 --> 00:14:07,360
to actually join law, even in a certain standard, right?

239
00:14:07,360 --> 00:14:12,040
So when that caused the person to me and I had a passion for it,

240
00:14:12,040 --> 00:14:13,680
I would have surely excelled at it.

241
00:14:13,680 --> 00:14:16,800
I know, like I'm being in all modesty and humility.

242
00:14:16,800 --> 00:14:19,360
It's not in a way that I'm being really funny about myself.

243
00:14:19,360 --> 00:14:24,520
But the fact is, I know that I didn't do it out of being forced.

244
00:14:24,800 --> 00:14:27,480
I had the right amount of support.

245
00:14:28,080 --> 00:14:29,680
I had a great family support.

246
00:14:29,680 --> 00:14:31,960
I had a lot of friends who were very supportive.

247
00:14:31,960 --> 00:14:35,440
So I had every all the boxes were ticked for me.

248
00:14:35,440 --> 00:14:37,960
So if I had actually changed my location

249
00:14:38,520 --> 00:14:42,600
that wasn't changing the field itself, I think I would have done better for sure.

250
00:14:43,400 --> 00:14:47,600
And I would have continued to stick in litigation if that was the situation.

251
00:14:48,160 --> 00:14:52,520
The thing was, again, it's I don't blame anybody extraordinarily.

252
00:14:52,520 --> 00:14:55,560
It was still so important to me that I've said, OK,

253
00:14:55,560 --> 00:14:59,960
I see five years away from home and I left when I was very 17.

254
00:14:59,960 --> 00:15:03,480
And now I'm coming back at 21, 22, a proper grown woman.

255
00:15:03,480 --> 00:15:06,560
And then probably I need to stay at home a little more. Right.

256
00:15:06,560 --> 00:15:10,760
So but to the other generation now, I always tell them that

257
00:15:10,960 --> 00:15:13,000
don't find comfort in your house.

258
00:15:13,000 --> 00:15:15,200
You know, it's always easy to have that comfort.

259
00:15:15,200 --> 00:15:17,320
But with struggle, it comes.

260
00:15:17,320 --> 00:15:19,840
So I see the younger generation doing that.

261
00:15:19,840 --> 00:15:20,960
So I feel that that's good.

262
00:15:20,960 --> 00:15:23,960
You know, you always have that option to stay at home,

263
00:15:24,320 --> 00:15:26,440
stay in the comforts of your house, all of those things.

264
00:15:26,440 --> 00:15:28,280
But they are trapped with struggle.

265
00:15:28,280 --> 00:15:32,200
It just doesn't work if you're not struggling. Right.

266
00:15:32,880 --> 00:15:37,040
Again, I was saying that people struggle is very personal to everybody.

267
00:15:37,600 --> 00:15:41,160
Like somebody with a chipped finger nail,

268
00:15:41,160 --> 00:15:43,320
that could be a struggle for them, you know, for them.

269
00:15:43,320 --> 00:15:45,040
It's like, oh, my God, I did my way.

270
00:15:45,040 --> 00:15:45,920
I wasn't talking.

271
00:15:45,920 --> 00:15:49,320
And for somebody who's getting like or make me live a struggle.

272
00:15:49,320 --> 00:15:52,760
So I think struggle as a word is very personal for everybody.

273
00:15:52,840 --> 00:15:56,760
But the success comes when you have to get to that.

274
00:15:57,040 --> 00:16:00,480
So if I would have changed the reasons for sure,

275
00:16:00,480 --> 00:16:02,720
I would have stayed back in litigation.

276
00:16:02,720 --> 00:16:05,840
But no regrets, because

277
00:16:05,880 --> 00:16:09,200
I feel what I've reached here and what I've achieved here

278
00:16:09,200 --> 00:16:11,440
is something that I predict a lot more.

279
00:16:12,080 --> 00:16:14,920
It suits in blends with my personality.

280
00:16:14,920 --> 00:16:19,600
I feel I don't think that I am merely doing law.

281
00:16:20,120 --> 00:16:21,920
It just seems like a single entity.

282
00:16:21,920 --> 00:16:26,440
So for me, that is a comfort zone that I've achieved with this experience.

283
00:16:26,480 --> 00:16:28,360
So no regrets.

284
00:16:28,360 --> 00:16:29,480
Happy to hear that.

285
00:16:29,480 --> 00:16:30,440
So please continue.

286
00:16:30,440 --> 00:16:31,680
You're done with litigation.

287
00:16:31,680 --> 00:16:33,520
You move to IP there.

288
00:16:34,120 --> 00:16:36,520
So I practice IP for a really long time,

289
00:16:36,520 --> 00:16:38,960
because there's just so much potential in that field.

290
00:16:38,960 --> 00:16:42,680
And I had really good mentors and loved IP.

291
00:16:43,240 --> 00:16:46,240
OK, and I think every not eight years, I practice IP.

292
00:16:46,240 --> 00:16:50,320
I would I would actually make fun to say that I became so good at IP

293
00:16:50,320 --> 00:16:51,720
that I can do it in my sleep.

294
00:16:51,720 --> 00:16:55,360
Well, people ask me anything about gridmas, populoids,

295
00:16:55,720 --> 00:16:57,960
and designs, whatever that I would have to do.

296
00:16:57,960 --> 00:16:59,120
I could speak in my sleep.

297
00:16:59,120 --> 00:17:03,200
So IP was good. IP was interesting.

298
00:17:03,520 --> 00:17:06,240
But IP became a comfort zone for me after the law.

299
00:17:06,600 --> 00:17:08,880
And I was like, this is good.

300
00:17:08,880 --> 00:17:10,000
Everything was good.

301
00:17:10,000 --> 00:17:13,680
There's money, there's some sort of power, there's anything.

302
00:17:13,680 --> 00:17:17,560
But I always kept feeling that I am not lame.

303
00:17:17,560 --> 00:17:19,120
So there's something more.

304
00:17:19,120 --> 00:17:20,440
I need to do something more.

305
00:17:20,440 --> 00:17:23,600
And again, this is so very personal, because, you know,

306
00:17:23,760 --> 00:17:27,640
it's not that I'm going and making a change in the society as of now.

307
00:17:27,640 --> 00:17:28,720
That is all of those.

308
00:17:28,720 --> 00:17:31,840
But I kept feeling that I can do something more.

309
00:17:32,040 --> 00:17:36,160
I always had this nagging thought that you should never stay in your comfort zone.

310
00:17:36,440 --> 00:17:38,920
You should always try and break your comfort zone.

311
00:17:38,920 --> 00:17:42,240
I think that something that would be raised would that's the whole.

312
00:17:42,240 --> 00:17:45,960
My parents have always believed that life lies beyond your comfort zone.

313
00:17:45,960 --> 00:17:48,200
So I knew I was in my comfort zone.

314
00:17:48,200 --> 00:17:51,240
But that was the time that I had actually taken up teaching as well,

315
00:17:51,240 --> 00:17:52,760
because I think it was comfortable.

316
00:17:52,760 --> 00:17:55,040
I had a lot of good free time in my area.

317
00:17:55,040 --> 00:17:58,760
And so what I used to do during weekends, I used to teach students

318
00:17:58,760 --> 00:18:01,880
who are interested in doing the law and that's right.

319
00:18:02,120 --> 00:18:05,120
So I would teach them law, not just law per se,

320
00:18:05,120 --> 00:18:07,320
I would also give them a little bit of life lessons.

321
00:18:07,320 --> 00:18:10,360
And so my kids, I would always tell them, you think I'm giving you a gap,

322
00:18:10,360 --> 00:18:11,840
but tomorrow you should go there.

323
00:18:11,840 --> 00:18:13,920
Well, that works. It's not just yarn.

324
00:18:13,920 --> 00:18:17,120
So my children, other kids used to really adore me.

325
00:18:17,120 --> 00:18:19,360
And I had a good time.

326
00:18:19,360 --> 00:18:21,920
So weekends used to be difficult, right?

327
00:18:21,920 --> 00:18:25,120
So weekends used to be a week of working, Monday to Friday working.

328
00:18:25,520 --> 00:18:27,960
Saturday and Sunday, I used to start my day at eight.

329
00:18:27,960 --> 00:18:30,600
The sessions are in it and with multiple sessions,

330
00:18:30,600 --> 00:18:32,840
I used to actually work till seven in the evening.

331
00:18:32,840 --> 00:18:36,600
So I actually absolutely had no personal life at all.

332
00:18:36,600 --> 00:18:40,360
It used to always be just either I'm working or I'm teaching.

333
00:18:40,360 --> 00:18:45,080
But the kind of happiness you get, I would never trade that for anything else.

334
00:18:45,080 --> 00:18:49,520
So it used to be frustrating sometimes, but I just didn't want to give that up.

335
00:18:49,520 --> 00:18:52,680
So when I shifted from Chennai and I came to Gurgaon as well,

336
00:18:52,680 --> 00:18:54,040
I continued teaching.

337
00:18:54,040 --> 00:18:58,120
I was affiliated with the same institution that I used to teach.

338
00:18:58,120 --> 00:19:02,760
And that was really good, which I think I have been teaching

339
00:19:02,760 --> 00:19:07,960
for the last six to seven years now, with a lot of passion, a lot of happiness.

340
00:19:07,960 --> 00:19:10,360
So that started to grow in the C.A.

341
00:19:10,360 --> 00:19:13,200
You know, that's it, I will be doing this forever.

342
00:19:13,200 --> 00:19:17,440
Isn't there something you need to know more about happiness?

343
00:19:17,440 --> 00:19:21,040
And this was the problematic part, because you are a specialist.

344
00:19:21,080 --> 00:19:24,520
It's like, you know, they say grades don't pack out in schools,

345
00:19:24,520 --> 00:19:26,680
but eventually when you get somebody, you'll see, OK,

346
00:19:26,680 --> 00:19:28,360
your grades are the most important thing.

347
00:19:28,360 --> 00:19:29,840
So it's something like that.

348
00:19:29,840 --> 00:19:33,160
So I was like, OK, I'd be a knowledgeable lawyer.

349
00:19:33,160 --> 00:19:35,760
I don't think I'm a real senior inspector.

350
00:19:35,760 --> 00:19:40,880
But I would just never, I would never go into a company.

351
00:19:40,880 --> 00:19:44,520
So I think my next venture should be to get into a company.

352
00:19:44,520 --> 00:19:47,480
Probably then leave the department or whatever.

353
00:19:47,480 --> 00:19:50,080
But that should be my next venture.

354
00:19:50,880 --> 00:19:54,040
I'm not joking, I'm not making it up, but I've applied from

355
00:19:54,040 --> 00:19:59,440
I've ordered 200 companies of it and I have gotten rejections from all of them.

356
00:19:59,440 --> 00:20:01,240
All of them, literally.

357
00:20:01,240 --> 00:20:03,200
So yeah, you're so so good.

358
00:20:03,200 --> 00:20:07,200
And I, first rejection, second rejection, you're like, whatever.

359
00:20:07,200 --> 00:20:09,760
By the 50th rejection, you're OK.

360
00:20:09,760 --> 00:20:12,560
But the thing is, I would just be like, you think I've got a rejection,

361
00:20:12,560 --> 00:20:13,960
you might like, but I would never care.

362
00:20:13,960 --> 00:20:16,280
At least you wouldn't say it's about the same, that rejection.

363
00:20:17,080 --> 00:20:19,840
I know the reason, I know the reason, it's very simple.

364
00:20:19,840 --> 00:20:24,800
I'm a specialist, I'm doing IT and I have enough walls of work experience.

365
00:20:24,800 --> 00:20:28,400
So my PQE is really high, it's a good eight to nine years of work experience.

366
00:20:28,400 --> 00:20:29,680
But it's all at IT.

367
00:20:29,680 --> 00:20:34,400
A company is not going to inject at somebody at such a high level of experience

368
00:20:34,400 --> 00:20:36,040
to do something genuine.

369
00:20:36,040 --> 00:20:39,120
So that was a really unique touch.

370
00:20:39,120 --> 00:20:45,120
And I think I feel that that's one of the most challenging parts of my career

371
00:20:45,160 --> 00:20:48,280
when I had to shift from a specialist to a journalist.

372
00:20:48,280 --> 00:20:52,400
And it's also a big blow to your confidence.

373
00:20:52,400 --> 00:20:54,880
I wouldn't say ego, but your self-confidence, right?

374
00:20:54,880 --> 00:20:58,880
You know your work, you know you think you're fine.

375
00:20:58,880 --> 00:21:02,080
But those rejections, I would have to speak to you at night.

376
00:21:02,080 --> 00:21:04,520
I had a job, it's not that I did not have a job.

377
00:21:04,520 --> 00:21:06,480
I had some money, I didn't.

378
00:21:06,480 --> 00:21:10,520
It was just not something, it was just not what I wanted.

379
00:21:10,520 --> 00:21:13,560
So that shift happened.

380
00:21:13,600 --> 00:21:18,400
I applied at HPE and I got in and I went to the conference interview

381
00:21:18,400 --> 00:21:21,000
that I was managing up front.

382
00:21:21,000 --> 00:21:23,560
And I said, I have IP experience.

383
00:21:23,560 --> 00:21:26,920
And the funny part of HPE, and that's what he told me,

384
00:21:26,920 --> 00:21:30,280
and so there was a lot of speculation, he told me,

385
00:21:30,280 --> 00:21:33,040
that we don't do IP in India at all.

386
00:21:33,040 --> 00:21:34,800
IP is hanging there for worldwide.

387
00:21:34,800 --> 00:21:36,360
We don't patch IP in India.

388
00:21:36,360 --> 00:21:38,600
I was like, okay, thank you.

389
00:21:38,600 --> 00:21:41,040
I got an issue and then he's like, whatever.

390
00:21:41,880 --> 00:21:46,280
He said, you know, and I said, you never done it before.

391
00:21:46,280 --> 00:21:47,280
That was what?

392
00:21:47,280 --> 00:21:49,560
It was really challenging.

393
00:21:49,560 --> 00:21:53,200
I don't know if he saw what he identified, what he did.

394
00:21:53,200 --> 00:21:55,920
I got the job with HPE.

395
00:21:55,920 --> 00:21:58,560
And then looking on looking back after that,

396
00:21:58,560 --> 00:22:01,200
because HPE has been like a roller coaster.

397
00:22:01,200 --> 00:22:03,960
And it's like, you know, you see those highs and lows

398
00:22:03,960 --> 00:22:05,600
over every single day.

399
00:22:05,600 --> 00:22:10,040
So it's an absolute pleasure to know

400
00:22:10,080 --> 00:22:12,800
that I'm in an organization where,

401
00:22:12,800 --> 00:22:15,480
one, I was identified, you know,

402
00:22:15,480 --> 00:22:17,040
I wasn't taken as a specialist.

403
00:22:17,040 --> 00:22:19,240
I was identified in the family.

404
00:22:19,240 --> 00:22:22,360
And the second part of it was the fact that

405
00:22:22,360 --> 00:22:25,200
every single day I have so much to learn.

406
00:22:25,200 --> 00:22:27,440
So for HPE and the organization,

407
00:22:27,440 --> 00:22:29,520
it never shies from teaching, you know.

408
00:22:29,520 --> 00:22:31,760
Like they say, I think it comes from the leadership itself.

409
00:22:31,760 --> 00:22:33,440
They say, there are no stupid questions.

410
00:22:33,440 --> 00:22:34,840
Ask whatever you want to.

411
00:22:34,840 --> 00:22:36,960
There will just be an answer, right?

412
00:22:36,960 --> 00:22:40,080
So that's the only thing that I see on.

413
00:22:41,280 --> 00:22:43,560
But I did stop teaching for a while

414
00:22:43,560 --> 00:22:46,080
because too pressurizing, you know.

415
00:22:46,080 --> 00:22:47,760
You're trying to figure your own things out.

416
00:22:47,760 --> 00:22:50,480
You're trying to learn new things that you don't have.

417
00:22:50,480 --> 00:22:53,080
And I didn't want to do an injustice with the kids, right?

418
00:22:53,080 --> 00:22:55,360
If I'm not giving my 100% there,

419
00:22:55,360 --> 00:22:57,840
then it's no point, you know, even being there.

420
00:22:57,840 --> 00:22:59,720
So that was the need.

421
00:22:59,720 --> 00:23:02,200
That's been like a period of trajectory of mine

422
00:23:02,200 --> 00:23:04,480
from litigation into a third year

423
00:23:04,480 --> 00:23:06,880
to work today when you get down to it.

424
00:23:06,880 --> 00:23:09,160
Wow, thanks for sharing that story.

425
00:23:09,160 --> 00:23:10,240
It was really enlightening.

426
00:23:10,240 --> 00:23:12,400
And you know, making that transition from IP

427
00:23:12,400 --> 00:23:16,280
to general corporate practice is really difficult, right?

428
00:23:16,280 --> 00:23:19,680
And you know, you shared your struggles for that, right?

429
00:23:19,680 --> 00:23:22,560
But anything specific that you want to say,

430
00:23:22,560 --> 00:23:26,280
like if somebody wants to make that transition from IP

431
00:23:26,280 --> 00:23:29,720
with the, you know, five to six years of PQE, right?

432
00:23:29,720 --> 00:23:31,200
What should they do?

433
00:23:32,160 --> 00:23:34,400
I think my students said two, three things.

434
00:23:34,400 --> 00:23:36,360
One is your professional side, right?

435
00:23:36,360 --> 00:23:38,640
Even if you are an IP lawyer,

436
00:23:38,640 --> 00:23:40,760
while, yes, you need to have in-depth knowledge

437
00:23:40,760 --> 00:23:43,160
about the area that you specialize in.

438
00:23:43,160 --> 00:23:44,000
Yes, that's a problem.

439
00:23:44,000 --> 00:23:45,720
That's the least they'd ask about it.

440
00:23:45,720 --> 00:23:47,640
But don't ensure to be deluded

441
00:23:47,640 --> 00:23:50,040
about anything else that's happening, right?

442
00:23:50,040 --> 00:23:51,520
So we actually stayed like, now,

443
00:23:51,520 --> 00:23:55,520
everybody's up for AI and being this one to talk about AI.

444
00:23:55,520 --> 00:23:57,160
I cannot mistake myself to say,

445
00:23:57,160 --> 00:24:01,000
okay, I'm going to read about AI because I'm an IP lawyer.

446
00:24:01,760 --> 00:24:04,320
So I am paying for copyrights, for patents,

447
00:24:04,320 --> 00:24:06,360
even if they are also connected, right?

448
00:24:06,360 --> 00:24:07,640
Well, for that matter,

449
00:24:07,640 --> 00:24:12,240
India is at such a geographically or politically,

450
00:24:12,240 --> 00:24:14,800
India is at such a crossroad.

451
00:24:14,800 --> 00:24:18,360
So it is very important to read about India's

452
00:24:18,360 --> 00:24:21,440
funding at the world level, to be well aware.

453
00:24:21,440 --> 00:24:22,680
I was saying, go in depth

454
00:24:22,680 --> 00:24:25,600
and go bring out your constitution law bookfully.

455
00:24:25,600 --> 00:24:27,840
Obviously, college has taught you basics, right?

456
00:24:27,840 --> 00:24:31,240
But to be well-informed about things

457
00:24:31,240 --> 00:24:33,840
which are apart from your specialization.

458
00:24:33,840 --> 00:24:36,440
That's what I recommend to anybody

459
00:24:36,440 --> 00:24:38,600
who's intending to do a transition.

460
00:24:38,600 --> 00:24:41,960
Today, I may not know exactly the process

461
00:24:41,960 --> 00:24:44,240
of Section 138 of the negotiable instruments.

462
00:24:44,240 --> 00:24:46,320
I may not know exactly how I'm supposed

463
00:24:46,320 --> 00:24:48,000
to know that application.

464
00:24:48,000 --> 00:24:51,000
But I at least know that this kind of process exists,

465
00:24:51,000 --> 00:24:52,880
which is what I'm supposed to be aware about.

466
00:24:52,880 --> 00:24:57,200
So being well-informed is a word rather

467
00:24:57,440 --> 00:24:59,720
than to be saying very well about everything.

468
00:24:59,720 --> 00:25:02,800
So I already clearly told everybody around me

469
00:25:02,800 --> 00:25:05,120
that I don't want even something

470
00:25:05,120 --> 00:25:07,000
similar as a consumer protection law, right?

471
00:25:07,000 --> 00:25:08,960
I don't know the details about it.

472
00:25:08,960 --> 00:25:11,000
Yes, of course, I know what are the rights,

473
00:25:11,000 --> 00:25:13,800
what are the variables, what are the forums, et cetera.

474
00:25:13,800 --> 00:25:16,200
But for me to get into the depth

475
00:25:16,200 --> 00:25:18,160
I can do it only if I'm working about it.

476
00:25:18,160 --> 00:25:21,440
But to be well, nobody can say, I shouldn't be practical.

477
00:25:21,440 --> 00:25:23,560
I have to be like, what is the principle of protection?

478
00:25:23,560 --> 00:25:25,640
How is that even applicable and all of that?

479
00:25:25,640 --> 00:25:27,880
So they should be well-groomed.

480
00:25:27,880 --> 00:25:31,080
And the company for going there to make that interview,

481
00:25:31,080 --> 00:25:33,520
they should surely read about that company.

482
00:25:33,520 --> 00:25:37,040
I feel that is such a underrated activity

483
00:25:37,040 --> 00:25:40,360
that people, and especially our generation, belong to.

484
00:25:40,360 --> 00:25:43,840
Yet you excellent science to read about the organization

485
00:25:43,840 --> 00:25:48,840
to see the environment, to understand what they exactly do.

486
00:25:48,880 --> 00:25:51,240
Every company has a vision.

487
00:25:51,240 --> 00:25:53,920
You can show your others their vision

488
00:25:53,920 --> 00:25:55,560
and fit yourself in that vision.

489
00:25:56,480 --> 00:26:00,240
So don't you think from the professional side

490
00:26:00,240 --> 00:26:01,280
it's very important?

491
00:26:02,560 --> 00:26:05,000
Personal side, I think there's just one word

492
00:26:05,000 --> 00:26:10,000
which is called as, should be determined to do it, right?

493
00:26:10,240 --> 00:26:13,480
200 companies can reject your application that you just won

494
00:26:13,480 --> 00:26:15,360
and that one will be the right one for you.

495
00:26:15,360 --> 00:26:19,000
So hold on, don't ever feel that, okay, I'm not worth it

496
00:26:19,000 --> 00:26:21,440
because 200 companies rejected me.

497
00:26:21,440 --> 00:26:22,800
That doesn't matter.

498
00:26:22,800 --> 00:26:27,800
So determination is so important at this crossroad, right?

499
00:26:28,600 --> 00:26:29,840
Where you're looking at the fact

500
00:26:29,840 --> 00:26:31,360
that you need to make that transition.

501
00:26:31,360 --> 00:26:33,520
If you both have that confidence in yourself,

502
00:26:33,520 --> 00:26:35,680
it's just not unbelievable.

503
00:26:35,680 --> 00:26:36,840
Makes sense.

504
00:26:36,840 --> 00:26:40,000
So moving on, in your vast legal career,

505
00:26:40,000 --> 00:26:45,000
which case or project challenged your understanding of law

506
00:26:45,080 --> 00:26:46,760
in the most profound way?

507
00:26:47,760 --> 00:26:51,760
So again, now with this, I cannot pinpoint it to say

508
00:26:51,760 --> 00:26:54,640
that this is the one thing that's challenged me firstly

509
00:26:54,640 --> 00:26:56,840
because now that you've thought about by swapping,

510
00:26:56,840 --> 00:26:59,640
the entire transition has been so challenging, right?

511
00:26:59,640 --> 00:27:02,200
So today if I say that, okay, this one particular thing

512
00:27:02,200 --> 00:27:04,720
that I did was challenging would not be justifiable

513
00:27:04,720 --> 00:27:07,120
because the other six years that I have done

514
00:27:07,120 --> 00:27:09,120
while they may not have been challenging firstly,

515
00:27:09,120 --> 00:27:10,480
it is still being new for me

516
00:27:10,480 --> 00:27:12,840
and something that is very new to my team.

517
00:27:12,840 --> 00:27:15,600
So I would now point out the biggest challenge

518
00:27:16,560 --> 00:27:20,240
is the whole role of transition,

519
00:27:20,240 --> 00:27:22,080
how I have done the transition.

520
00:27:22,080 --> 00:27:23,880
And I teach that, okay?

521
00:27:23,880 --> 00:27:26,120
So let's just look at a real life situation,

522
00:27:26,120 --> 00:27:27,240
talking new concept team

523
00:27:27,240 --> 00:27:29,440
when you have absolutely no idea how to set up.

524
00:27:29,440 --> 00:27:31,200
So first you go back to the joining board,

525
00:27:31,200 --> 00:27:33,440
you read, you'll try to understand,

526
00:27:33,440 --> 00:27:35,320
you speak with people who have an experience

527
00:27:35,320 --> 00:27:37,440
and try to gather some knowledge.

528
00:27:37,440 --> 00:27:39,400
The entire process itself,

529
00:27:39,400 --> 00:27:43,160
to deal with that answer is so challenging.

530
00:27:43,200 --> 00:27:45,400
And then we let's be very honest about this,

531
00:27:45,400 --> 00:27:46,840
I always remember this story,

532
00:27:46,840 --> 00:27:49,360
I don't know, it's a very well-known story, right?

533
00:27:49,360 --> 00:27:51,680
Like there was a ship with an issue

534
00:27:51,680 --> 00:27:54,520
and then got all the biggest engineers

535
00:27:54,520 --> 00:27:55,840
to come and get the data,

536
00:27:55,840 --> 00:27:57,240
nobody wanted to get the data,

537
00:27:57,240 --> 00:27:59,360
suddenly they got this old man

538
00:27:59,360 --> 00:28:00,920
and he tapped that one day,

539
00:28:00,920 --> 00:28:02,880
the thing got fixed.

540
00:28:02,880 --> 00:28:05,480
Apparently it's a day of 10 million dollars or something

541
00:28:05,480 --> 00:28:06,320
and he was like,

542
00:28:06,320 --> 00:28:08,200
and the people can just wait two minutes, right?

543
00:28:08,200 --> 00:28:09,280
What, why 10 million?

544
00:28:09,280 --> 00:28:11,320
And he said, it's not the students I had

545
00:28:11,320 --> 00:28:12,960
because I knew by the time.

546
00:28:13,800 --> 00:28:14,640
You know, it's a very long story,

547
00:28:14,640 --> 00:28:16,040
but it's so relevant also.

548
00:28:16,040 --> 00:28:19,600
So for us the challenge to reach that situation,

549
00:28:19,600 --> 00:28:20,840
to gather that learning,

550
00:28:20,840 --> 00:28:23,680
to be able to deal that way,

551
00:28:23,680 --> 00:28:25,880
like it's so important.

552
00:28:25,880 --> 00:28:27,760
So I would not actually take it in one,

553
00:28:27,760 --> 00:28:29,480
I would obviously take it in all.

554
00:28:32,440 --> 00:28:34,200
Great diplomatic answer there.

555
00:28:36,320 --> 00:28:39,400
Okay, alright, spill the beans.

556
00:28:39,400 --> 00:28:41,640
Who was your heartthrob back in college?

557
00:28:41,640 --> 00:28:44,240
We don't want to know about your personal life,

558
00:28:44,240 --> 00:28:47,560
but we want to know about your academic dalliances.

559
00:28:49,000 --> 00:28:50,520
That's an interesting question.

560
00:28:50,520 --> 00:28:53,520
So you could have asked me about my personal life,

561
00:28:53,520 --> 00:28:56,000
that would have been so much easier to ask, right?

562
00:28:57,160 --> 00:28:58,400
But I can, no, yes.

563
00:29:01,320 --> 00:29:04,400
Right, now that you've tagged me as a diplomatic person,

564
00:29:04,400 --> 00:29:05,720
I'll give you diplomatic answers,

565
00:29:05,720 --> 00:29:06,560
it's a little difficult,

566
00:29:06,560 --> 00:29:08,560
but again, like I want to tell you,

567
00:29:08,560 --> 00:29:09,880
during college or so,

568
00:29:09,880 --> 00:29:11,520
again, getting back to INS

569
00:29:12,440 --> 00:29:14,440
we have such a great alumni,

570
00:29:14,440 --> 00:29:16,480
and they get, they do,

571
00:29:16,480 --> 00:29:19,480
the college itself really invests in their students,

572
00:29:19,480 --> 00:29:22,480
to get them that experience, that exposure, et cetera.

573
00:29:22,480 --> 00:29:25,200
Well, all of the legends used to come and speak, right?

574
00:29:25,200 --> 00:29:27,640
In the fall, we used to ask kids just to sit like this,

575
00:29:27,640 --> 00:29:28,720
with those starry eyes,

576
00:29:28,720 --> 00:29:32,040
and say that we're going to be that person someday, right?

577
00:29:32,040 --> 00:29:34,560
And each of them had such a unique offering

578
00:29:34,560 --> 00:29:36,160
from their experience, et cetera.

579
00:29:36,160 --> 00:29:40,480
So I never felt that I really idealized one person

580
00:29:40,480 --> 00:29:41,520
in the profession, per se,

581
00:29:41,520 --> 00:29:44,160
and also because I always wanted to have a mark

582
00:29:44,160 --> 00:29:45,760
of my own in this profession.

583
00:29:45,760 --> 00:29:48,680
So I never was able to idealize somebody,

584
00:29:48,680 --> 00:29:50,520
or to say that, okay, he's my crush,

585
00:29:50,520 --> 00:29:52,200
or he is somebody that I like.

586
00:29:52,200 --> 00:29:55,160
I would rather say, let the profession be my question.

587
00:29:55,160 --> 00:29:56,000
Why?

588
00:29:56,000 --> 00:29:57,440
Now, because I've always wanted to be a follower,

589
00:29:57,440 --> 00:29:59,040
because I know what I want,

590
00:29:59,040 --> 00:30:00,920
I would say it's just the profession.

591
00:30:00,920 --> 00:30:03,480
So I can't think of one person to say,

592
00:30:03,480 --> 00:30:05,760
okay, this guy, it's like something, or did something,

593
00:30:05,760 --> 00:30:07,520
which has really made me like it.

594
00:30:08,480 --> 00:30:09,320
Yeah.

595
00:30:09,320 --> 00:30:11,080
Younger ages was like, I used to,

596
00:30:11,080 --> 00:30:13,120
and I remember we used to stay in the hostel,

597
00:30:13,120 --> 00:30:14,680
and I'm sure anyway, all of my parents,

598
00:30:14,680 --> 00:30:16,280
you've seen my college friends listening,

599
00:30:16,280 --> 00:30:17,880
they would also relate to it.

600
00:30:17,880 --> 00:30:21,760
We would, and hostel girls had like the advantage,

601
00:30:21,760 --> 00:30:23,120
because we were just staying there, right?

602
00:30:23,120 --> 00:30:25,880
So we would just go running to get the first seats,

603
00:30:25,880 --> 00:30:27,600
and ensure that we're listening to them,

604
00:30:27,600 --> 00:30:28,520
and all of those things.

605
00:30:28,520 --> 00:30:32,160
But, yeah, no, no such thing.

606
00:30:32,160 --> 00:30:33,080
Makes sense.

607
00:30:33,080 --> 00:30:35,880
Asha, I always wanted to get this controversy cleared.

608
00:30:35,880 --> 00:30:39,880
Like, is there a power that ILS has like captured,

609
00:30:39,880 --> 00:30:42,800
and they don't allow some people to come there?

610
00:30:42,800 --> 00:30:46,160
Is that some truth to this statement?

611
00:30:46,160 --> 00:30:48,360
So I guess it does have a hill of its own, okay?

612
00:30:48,360 --> 00:30:49,960
Now, I don't know if in the reality part,

613
00:30:49,960 --> 00:30:52,000
but we know we have an ILS Hill,

614
00:30:52,000 --> 00:30:55,440
and in fact, the girls hostel is so strategically placed

615
00:30:55,440 --> 00:30:58,120
that from our, the windows, the backside,

616
00:30:58,120 --> 00:30:59,960
the hills are all visible.

617
00:30:59,960 --> 00:31:03,080
So yes, ILS does have a hill for itself.

618
00:31:03,080 --> 00:31:04,600
It's called ILS Hill.

619
00:31:04,640 --> 00:31:06,200
We've checked it a lot of times.

620
00:31:06,200 --> 00:31:08,640
It used to be like the weekend thing to do,

621
00:31:08,640 --> 00:31:09,880
you know, go check the hill,

622
00:31:09,880 --> 00:31:11,920
and used to go have a small picnic on top,

623
00:31:11,920 --> 00:31:13,200
all of those things.

624
00:31:13,200 --> 00:31:16,320
Did we not allow Sindhi people to come?

625
00:31:16,320 --> 00:31:17,160
Asha.

626
00:31:17,160 --> 00:31:19,160
I mean, we are very possessive about our stuff.

627
00:31:19,160 --> 00:31:20,920
We can't hill at the end of the day.

628
00:31:20,920 --> 00:31:21,760
Right.

629
00:31:23,160 --> 00:31:25,520
And Sindhi, I think, had a wheel of their own also.

630
00:31:25,520 --> 00:31:26,920
So there are something there,

631
00:31:26,920 --> 00:31:28,720
so we just can want them to come.

632
00:31:28,720 --> 00:31:31,520
But I can very confidently say

633
00:31:31,520 --> 00:31:34,000
that we used to allow everybody to come to the mess.

634
00:31:34,040 --> 00:31:36,000
ILS mess was very famous.

635
00:31:36,000 --> 00:31:37,800
I don't know if you've heard of it.

636
00:31:37,800 --> 00:31:40,120
The next time you go to Pune, please go to the mess.

637
00:31:40,120 --> 00:31:42,160
Okay, that's all.

638
00:31:42,160 --> 00:31:43,680
Yeah, and I'll be useful.

639
00:31:43,680 --> 00:31:45,920
I mean, I know people from different colleges

640
00:31:45,920 --> 00:31:46,760
used to come there,

641
00:31:46,760 --> 00:31:48,680
and people after I graduated also told me,

642
00:31:48,680 --> 00:31:50,400
mess that cannot.

643
00:31:50,400 --> 00:31:52,960
I don't know now, the situation though.

644
00:31:54,240 --> 00:31:55,760
I wish like you didn't do this,

645
00:31:55,760 --> 00:31:58,640
but anyway, now we have supplies for you.

646
00:31:58,640 --> 00:32:00,920
This is time for rapid fire round,

647
00:32:00,920 --> 00:32:02,600
full cut style.

648
00:32:02,600 --> 00:32:06,640
Okay, so you have to answer the questions quickly.

649
00:32:06,640 --> 00:32:09,320
So best book ever read,

650
00:32:09,320 --> 00:32:11,760
besides Black's Law Dictionary, of course,

651
00:32:11,760 --> 00:32:14,440
and what was the book that made you go wow?

652
00:32:16,680 --> 00:32:18,200
Okay, rapid fire two year,

653
00:32:18,200 --> 00:32:21,080
Thousand Splendid Suns by Khalid Hussaini is my,

654
00:32:21,080 --> 00:32:24,120
so you'll say that if there is a book

655
00:32:24,120 --> 00:32:26,120
that's been able to start emotions up,

656
00:32:26,120 --> 00:32:27,600
and he has written a theology,

657
00:32:27,600 --> 00:32:29,000
I don't like the other two books,

658
00:32:29,000 --> 00:32:31,800
it's just this Thousand Splendid Suns that I read.

659
00:32:31,800 --> 00:32:34,480
That was a book that actually made me cry.

660
00:32:34,480 --> 00:32:36,200
And I know it's an adaptation of the women

661
00:32:36,200 --> 00:32:37,840
in Afghanistan and all of those things,

662
00:32:37,840 --> 00:32:40,120
but I was reading that book and I was crying,

663
00:32:40,120 --> 00:32:44,040
and I was like, if this book has the power to do this,

664
00:32:44,040 --> 00:32:46,360
imagine what that writer must have seen.

665
00:32:46,360 --> 00:32:50,360
So that's a book that I really hold on to.

666
00:32:50,360 --> 00:32:51,800
Of course, there are a lot of other books

667
00:32:51,800 --> 00:32:53,240
which I really like,

668
00:32:53,240 --> 00:32:54,840
even the Interst Fund, The Seven Rooms,

669
00:32:54,840 --> 00:32:56,160
or Kali Alveda or something,

670
00:32:56,160 --> 00:32:57,360
which I felt the book applies,

671
00:32:57,360 --> 00:33:00,360
which I felt it's so well written,

672
00:33:00,360 --> 00:33:02,320
but starting of emotions,

673
00:33:02,320 --> 00:33:04,320
I think nobody can do it as good as Khalid

674
00:33:04,320 --> 00:33:05,960
in The Thousand Splendid Suns,

675
00:33:05,960 --> 00:33:07,800
he's not done it, I did it.

676
00:33:07,800 --> 00:33:09,120
I'm very disappointed.

677
00:33:10,640 --> 00:33:13,040
Okay, Mirj, your life's mantra.

678
00:33:14,160 --> 00:33:17,480
My life's mantra is trust the past.

679
00:33:17,480 --> 00:33:20,040
There is a process, there is a bigger boat,

680
00:33:20,040 --> 00:33:22,480
there is something that's there for you, trust.

681
00:33:23,520 --> 00:33:25,240
Do your mistakes, learn from them,

682
00:33:25,240 --> 00:33:27,400
never leave them, but trust.

683
00:33:27,400 --> 00:33:30,000
Right, owing on to the next question,

684
00:33:30,000 --> 00:33:32,400
what is the one thing you can't live without?

685
00:33:33,680 --> 00:33:37,520
Oh, food and not your anything.

686
00:33:37,520 --> 00:33:38,520
Not all the time.

687
00:33:38,520 --> 00:33:39,520
Not being essential,

688
00:33:39,520 --> 00:33:42,600
but I have a very bad habit about my phone.

689
00:33:42,600 --> 00:33:44,560
I agree that it's a bad habit, right?

690
00:33:44,560 --> 00:33:47,040
You know, like I feel I am those kind of people

691
00:33:47,040 --> 00:33:49,560
who wake up and the first thing they see is their phone.

692
00:33:49,560 --> 00:33:51,600
So I don't like that habit, right?

693
00:33:51,600 --> 00:33:52,840
I try to change it.

694
00:33:52,840 --> 00:33:54,440
I try to stay away from it,

695
00:33:54,440 --> 00:33:57,320
but the phone is something.

696
00:33:57,320 --> 00:34:00,360
While talking to us, you feel what happens.

697
00:34:00,360 --> 00:34:03,360
It just rang as well, so I don't like it.

698
00:34:03,360 --> 00:34:06,840
So I love my phone.

699
00:34:06,840 --> 00:34:11,840
So if you go there, we have time for one one-liner answer.

700
00:34:12,560 --> 00:34:14,520
What is the best professional advice

701
00:34:14,520 --> 00:34:16,560
you have ever received so far?

702
00:34:16,560 --> 00:34:18,680
You make mistakes.

703
00:34:18,680 --> 00:34:19,520
Yeah.

704
00:34:19,520 --> 00:34:21,240
Own them, own your mistakes.

705
00:34:21,240 --> 00:34:22,600
I think that, and this is,

706
00:34:22,600 --> 00:34:26,320
I want somebody, not one person who's told this to me,

707
00:34:26,320 --> 00:34:28,440
but this is something that eventually

708
00:34:28,440 --> 00:34:30,920
life has given me as an advice, you know?

709
00:34:30,920 --> 00:34:32,160
I make a mistake.

710
00:34:32,160 --> 00:34:33,920
The more I try to cover it up,

711
00:34:33,920 --> 00:34:35,640
so it's going to become worse.

712
00:34:35,640 --> 00:34:38,920
Rather, there is a mistake, accept it, own it.

713
00:34:38,920 --> 00:34:41,000
By it, because nobody is ever going to say,

714
00:34:41,000 --> 00:34:42,800
listen, you made a mistake,

715
00:34:42,800 --> 00:34:45,200
this is not, you're just done for, right?

716
00:34:45,200 --> 00:34:46,800
You're human at the end of the day.

717
00:34:46,800 --> 00:34:50,080
Make your mistake, learn from that, own them.

718
00:34:50,080 --> 00:34:53,040
This is your mistake, I take it back, I will learn from it.

719
00:34:53,040 --> 00:34:54,880
If you're committing the same mistake twice,

720
00:34:54,880 --> 00:34:56,480
that means you've not learned from it.

721
00:34:56,480 --> 00:34:57,880
That's a no-go.

722
00:34:57,880 --> 00:34:59,000
But if you've learned from it,

723
00:34:59,000 --> 00:35:00,920
you own them and you won't make them again,

724
00:35:00,920 --> 00:35:02,960
I think it's just an excuse.

725
00:35:02,960 --> 00:35:03,800
Wow.

726
00:35:03,800 --> 00:35:04,640
Well said.

727
00:35:04,640 --> 00:35:06,880
So Nidhi, thanks a lot for coming on this podcast

728
00:35:06,880 --> 00:35:08,520
and sharing your story.

729
00:35:08,520 --> 00:35:10,320
Thank you so much for inviting me.

730
00:35:10,320 --> 00:35:12,840
Such an exciting time to speak about all of this,

731
00:35:12,840 --> 00:35:14,640
and I really wish you all the best

732
00:35:14,640 --> 00:35:16,320
with all your work that you're doing.

733
00:35:16,320 --> 00:35:18,360
I think you, before we started this,

734
00:35:18,360 --> 00:35:20,120
I want to make sure we said something about

735
00:35:20,120 --> 00:35:21,760
your owning it up, right?

736
00:35:21,760 --> 00:35:23,960
Like, how would you really want to

737
00:35:24,000 --> 00:35:26,000
interpret whatever you did?

738
00:35:26,000 --> 00:35:27,760
I think that is the way it works.

739
00:35:27,760 --> 00:35:30,680
You own data and so confidently that,

740
00:35:30,680 --> 00:35:32,720
I think that you should really

741
00:35:32,720 --> 00:35:34,800
show off to the world, right?

742
00:35:34,800 --> 00:35:36,000
That you own that thing.

743
00:35:37,000 --> 00:35:39,920
That excites me to be a part of this,

744
00:35:39,920 --> 00:35:41,120
and I'm so happy.

745
00:35:41,120 --> 00:35:42,800
I'm going to close this for now,

746
00:35:42,800 --> 00:35:44,720
but what is going to be next?

747
00:35:44,720 --> 00:35:46,440
Thanks a lot for that.

748
00:35:46,440 --> 00:35:47,280
Thanks.

749
00:35:49,080 --> 00:35:51,280
And that's a wrap for today's episode

750
00:35:51,280 --> 00:35:53,200
of Let's Discuss Cafe.

751
00:35:53,200 --> 00:35:56,120
A huge thank to our amazing guest, Niyati,

752
00:35:56,120 --> 00:35:58,840
for sharing her insights and experiences.

753
00:35:58,840 --> 00:36:02,280
Remember, folks, if you have enjoyed today's episode,

754
00:36:02,280 --> 00:36:05,480
don't forget to subscribe, rate, and leave a review.

755
00:36:05,480 --> 00:36:08,000
Follow Niyati on LinkedIn to keep up

756
00:36:08,000 --> 00:36:10,960
with her latest adventures in the legal world.

757
00:36:10,960 --> 00:36:14,560
Until next time, keep it legal, keep it legendary,

758
00:36:14,560 --> 00:36:18,160
and always have a backup plan for your data breaches.

759
00:36:18,160 --> 00:36:19,440
Take care, everyone.

760
00:36:19,440 --> 00:36:20,960
See you in the next episode.

761
00:36:21,760 --> 00:36:23,720
Hello, ladies.

762
00:36:23,720 --> 00:36:25,560
That's vara, right?

763
00:36:25,560 --> 00:36:27,600
Oh.

764
00:36:27,600 --> 00:36:28,440
Sorry.

765
00:36:28,440 --> 00:36:29,600
I guess.

766
00:36:29,600 --> 00:36:31,040
I'll stop.

767
00:36:31,040 --> 00:36:32,280
It's just...

768
00:36:32,280 --> 00:36:33,240
Sorry, sorry.

769
00:36:33,240 --> 00:36:34,800
It's fine.

770
00:36:37,760 --> 00:36:38,880
Little exercise, huh?

771
00:36:38,880 --> 00:36:39,960
Just a bit of exercise.

772
00:36:39,960 --> 00:36:41,560
Perfect.

773
00:36:41,560 --> 00:36:45,080
And then we will move on to some more

774
00:36:45,080 --> 00:36:46,400
of what you've just heard,

775
00:36:46,400 --> 00:36:49,800
but a little bit of each video,